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When Nerds Collide (2014)

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Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#71

Post by dagw »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #26

This article is so spot on and covers many of the things that have bothered me for years about people who try to join nerd communities and then immediately start complaining about "inappropriate behavior" (eg the dongle thing). Yes, there are cases where there is real inappropriate behavior surrounding positions of power in corporate or workplace settings, but in the community at large and in the communal and public…

The dongle thing didn't take place at a "nerd community" event, but at a professional conference. The problem, as it where, is that computers and programming is no longer the exclusive domain of the so called "nerd" and I don't think we should make joining a subculture a prerequisite for joining a career path.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#72

Post by [deleted] »

modfodder wrote: post #68
dropit_sphere wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is what [the forces of D]iversity [are] (or should be) fighting against, it really is trying to make it merit based which goes against our survival instincts, even those of the "nerds". How exactly do you expect a group to react when you push against its survival instincts? Feminism is accused of this most often, so I'll use it as an example: some have accused the feminist movement of sexism because it simultan…

Well, I would say that first, the threat feminists are often fighting against is the threat of bodily harm and behavior that leads to bodily harm (1 out of 6 women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape¹). Compare this to the threat that nerds are fighting against today, the threat of having to accept those that they deem unworthy. Secondly, I'm not arguing nerds shouldn't have a safe space. But that s…

[deleted]

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#73

Post by modfodder »

modfodder wrote: post #68
dropit_sphere wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is what [the forces of D]iversity [are] (or should be) fighting against, it really is trying to make it merit based which goes against our survival instincts, even those of the "nerds". How exactly do you expect a group to react when you push against its survival instincts? Feminism is accused of this most often, so I'll use it as an example: some have accused the feminist movement of sexism because it simultan…

Well, I would say that first, the threat feminists are often fighting against is the threat of bodily harm and behavior that leads to bodily harm (1 out of 6 women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape¹). Compare this to the threat that nerds are fighting against today, the threat of having to accept those that they deem unworthy. Secondly, I'm not arguing nerds shouldn't have a safe space. But that s…

edit: the comment this was a reply to was deleted....

I don't assume you harass people, sexually or otherwise, and never stated that you did. And from my experience, nerds tend to be less "harassy" than the general male population. But just because you want to ignore that sexual harassment is a problem even among the nerd population doesn't mean I will.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#74

Post by hueving »

arrrg wrote: post #52
hyperion2010 wrote: post #26

This article is so spot on and covers many of the things that have bothered me for years about people who try to join nerd communities and then immediately start complaining about "inappropriate behavior" (eg the dongle thing). Yes, there are cases where there is real inappropriate behavior surrounding positions of power in corporate or workplace settings, but in the community at large and in the communal and public…

Uhm, I’m real confused. Why do you talk about “try to join nerd communities” with regard to the dongle thing? Do you know something we don’t? That seems more like a policy of exclusion from your side – ala obviously a real nerd wouldn’t ever find something inappropriate or be clumsy in how they complain about something. This whole thing is a way of cordoning yourself off, isolating yourself from criticism, shunning o…

Some scumbag got a guy fired by publicly shaming him on twitter for making a joke to his friend in a private conversation. That is one of the most hostile, weird, and hateful ways I've ever seen someone behave.

It's a perfect example of counter-productive, oppressive behavior that was outlined in this article. Do you think getting that guy fired is going to suddenly change his sense of humor? Not likely. If anything, it's going to poison his view of feminists in the field by coloring them all as psychopaths willing to do anything to push an agenda rather than focus on the actual technology the community was originally built around.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#75

Post by barry-cotter »

modfodder wrote: post #68
dropit_sphere wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is what [the forces of D]iversity [are] (or should be) fighting against, it really is trying to make it merit based which goes against our survival instincts, even those of the "nerds". How exactly do you expect a group to react when you push against its survival instincts? Feminism is accused of this most often, so I'll use it as an example: some have accused the feminist movement of sexism because it simultan…

Well, I would say that first, the threat feminists are often fighting against is the threat of bodily harm and behavior that leads to bodily harm (1 out of 6 women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape¹). Compare this to the threat that nerds are fighting against today, the threat of having to accept those that they deem unworthy. Secondly, I'm not arguing nerds shouldn't have a safe space. But that s…

> But that safe space shouldn't be at the expense of diversity in the workplace (hired on merit)

What's your opinion on affirmative action?

> or online public spaces (where everyone should be treated with respect regardless of the merit metric).

This is bullshit. I have told one person on this site that I hoped that they died in terrible pain and that it took years because I meant it. Their opinion was vile and I would have said it to their face if they had been in front of me when they said it. Social opprobrium is a tool. There are people whose views I find abhorrent, who I hate and detest, personally. For a feminist perspective on this see the below link.

http://geekfeminism.org/2013/09/05/tone-policing-a-tool-for-...

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#76

Post by hueving »

Animats wrote: post #48
bronson wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's SF. It's 80% posers, especially at meetups. The minority that are doing interesting things are, of course, not so easy to find. Work hard on your passions and eventually you'll meet likeminded people. (that's true no matter where you're located) Just be glad you're there now, and not being forced by management to go to glitzy web parties in 1999. Those were insufferable.

SF has been 80% posers for decades. That's why the art and music scenes in SF are so bad. In NYC, they tell you if you suck. In LA, if you suck they don't call you back. In SF, there's no judgment or criticism, and you can suck forever.

Nobody cares about the art scene in SF vs NYC and LA. Take that discussion elsewhere.

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#77

Post by hueving »

jf wrote: post #60
RKoutnik wrote: post #29

I was shocked, visibly, when I found out that no one at the first startup I worked at played tabletop RPGs. I was shocked again when they looked down on me because I did. In a city that prides itself on "weirdos", I was the wrong kind of weird. In college I poured over Steven Levy's Hackers , hoping one day I would be able to meet the tech elite. I jumped at the first chance I got to work out here, hoping I'd finally…

If you want to meet people "talking hacker-speak" in the Bay Area, then I would suggest that you go to events that would only attract that sort of person. In general this will mean shying away from events about technological pop-culture and instead focusing on the events that cover very specific and "boring" topics. In your particular case, I would suggest going to events that focus on building things ("project night…

We need a meetup group dedicated to strategies for writing parsers. There is nothing 'hip' about that so it should flush out the standard meetup cruft (e.g. "my name is X, i'm a non-technical person looking for a technical cofounder").

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#78

Post by spiritplumber »

flomo wrote: post #69
Terr_ wrote: post #5

> When weird nerds watch the cool kids jockeying for social position on Twitter, we see no difference between these status games and the ones we opted out of in high school. [...] “corporate culture” that’s as loudly promoted and roughly as genuine as the “school spirit” These bits resonated with me more than I had expected. The declaration "life is not like high school" is only partially true. College offers a tempo…

That resonated with me for completely different reasons. Most of the "extremely weird nerds" from my high school were people with pretty serious functional problems who never did make it anywhere. They are pretty much the forgotten ones. The successful "nerds" were always at least introspective or 'ironic' and could function somewhat normally in social situations including attempting to play whatever status games tha…

Then there's those of us who can do that for a limited amount of time before it overloads them - it's something that requires a lot of brain effort, and doesn't come natural.

Then again, I do stuff like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRSu9LjV7E

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#79

Post by hueving »

sanxiyn wrote: post #46
RKoutnik wrote: post #29

I was shocked, visibly, when I found out that no one at the first startup I worked at played tabletop RPGs. I was shocked again when they looked down on me because I did. In a city that prides itself on "weirdos", I was the wrong kind of weird. In college I poured over Steven Levy's Hackers , hoping one day I would be able to meet the tech elite. I jumped at the first chance I got to work out here, hoping I'd finally…

Yes, you are going to the wrong ones.

It would be super helpful if this comment was followed by a list of some good ones...

Re: When Nerds Collide (2014)

#80

Post by gohrt »

mistermann wrote: post #19
fr0styMatt2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does calling people 'brogrammers' in a derogatory sense make us any different than the supposed 'cool kids' that rejected us? Shouldn't we strive to be better than that? (not saying that you are using the term 'brogrammer' like that, just posing a more general question).

Brogrammer is perhaps used for efficiency, so you don't have to write a 10 page screed as we just read (which was excellent by the way). I don't think there's any way to say it in a non-derogatory way if the central message is derogatory. The article seemed to be saying, we have a culture, and if you people infiltrate it, there is a good chance you will ruin it. I happen to agree with him.

It's not efficient. The word "Brogrammer" means "something something men I don't like for reasons I believe are their fault". It doesn't communicate anything, it just invites the reader to invent their own meaning, which has little to do with what the write was thinking.

The actual word was invented as a joke in a parody video, as a portmonteau of "bro" and "programmer". It then got picked up as an slur for "disliked man in the tech world".

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