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Ending the open office epidemic

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Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#121

Post by dmitrygr »

lallysingh wrote: post #36

I guess I'm in a real minority here, but I'm pretty happy with open-office. Some qualifiers: - The team has a good culture of respecting each other, and we're busy enough not to want to banter too much outside of certain times (e.g., lunch, when we see it already going on, etc.). - I've got good headphones hooked to a 24-bit-DAC'd USB amp. I don't hear anyone unless I'm trying to. - My screen's big enough where visua…

> "Asking someone a quick question is really, really quick."

Ever wonder why that someone then complains about distractions and lack of productivity? This is why

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#122

Post by elithrar »

joesmo wrote: post #76

Another negative about open office plans that I don't see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones up to eight hours a day. Headphones are generally not recommended to be used more than an hour a day and even then, they need to be at a low volume, something that's impossible in the open-office plans I've seen/worked in. "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to…

> "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day" (http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea...).

Out of curiosity, is there a peer-reviewed study on this? Moderation sounds good, but I'd like to understand at what intensity (dB) for what period could potentially constitute hearing loss.

The 60% cited in that link seems to be based on a 120dB max (so: 72dB), which is a fair bit higher than most consumer devices (with consumer headphone impedance levels). Some cursory research shows that it's a bit closer to 103 - 109dB for an iPhone (and similar devices), which puts it around 63dB.

For context, I use canalphones for the isolation, and so I can keep the output down. I also understand that these aren't viable and/or comfortable for everyone.

TL;DR: How long can someone sustain ~63dB without potential hearing damage?

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#123

Post by fsk »

dmitrygr wrote: post #121
lallysingh wrote: post #36

I guess I'm in a real minority here, but I'm pretty happy with open-office. Some qualifiers: - The team has a good culture of respecting each other, and we're busy enough not to want to banter too much outside of certain times (e.g., lunch, when we see it already going on, etc.). - I've got good headphones hooked to a 24-bit-DAC'd USB amp. I don't hear anyone unless I'm trying to. - My screen's big enough where visua…

> "Asking someone a quick question is really, really quick." Ever wonder why that someone then complains about distractions and lack of productivity? This is why

I'm wondering if open offices are good for junior people (who need to ask for help more often) but bad for senior people (who get interrupted more often).

For me, it's almost so bad that I don't bother trying to get in the zone/flow, because I know I'm going to be interrupted.

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#124

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

swift wrote: post #89
trose wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reject this assertion that people get ripped "out of the zone". What are you doing that is so complex that you can't jump right back into it? I've met plenty of people that like to act like they're some super elite programmer that is juggling complex class structures and debugging them inside their head. In my experience so far, those people are full of shit and make overly complex spaghetti code. Idk though, maybe…

The phenomenon of being "in the zone" is considered real by most psychologists, as far as I'm aware. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29 FWIW while I think interruptions are a real problem, I have certainly encountered some people who I think demand more quiet than is really needed. But some of this may just come down to differences in how tolerant people are of noise, or perhaps how stressed…

It seems there may also be a link between creativity and sensitivity to ambient noise.

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2015/03/creat...

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#125

Post by kazinator »

someotherdb wrote: post #4

A chap in our office runs to work each day, changes and leaves his damp sweaty clothes around his desk to dry. This means people give him lots of space, and practically his own office.

If this chap put on freshly laundered running clothes every morning, it wouldn't smell. The main cause of the smell problem is re-using.

I would guess, also, that has outer wear (e.g. nylon shell jacket) that he doesn't bother washing at all. Am I right?

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#126

Post by sopooneo »

I am a programmer with my own office. I like it better than shared space, especially if that space is shared with other departments. Especially especially if one of those other departments is sales. Those folks are great for a night out, but I'm not working beside that endless frat party ever again.

However, are we, the fans of private offices, claiming that our corporate overlords are not only greedy, but misguided? That in fact individual offices would be better both for their bottom line and our happiness as programmers?

I ask this only because I find myself increasingly suspect of all arguments which end by declaring that our stance "would be better for them anyway!" I call it arguing on both hands. As in, "on the one hand, this circumstance favors my position, but on the other hand so does this one!"

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#127

Post by shawnhermans »

kazinator wrote: post #23

Open offices instantly "out" anyone who comes late, leaves early, takes a 2.5 hour lunch breaks, or surfs the web instead of working. And that's really the whole point. It's why they are popular in Japan, together with the fact that thanks to the open structure, transgressor can apologize in front of everyone at once.

This is a crude way of handling low performing employees. It measures time spent at one's desk and not productivity. A good manager shouldn't be worrying about how their employees spend their time but should be worrying about whether or not their employees produce.

If there is an employee an employee who is constantly leaving early, coming in late, and not working, management needs to deal with this directly. An open office plan is not a good replacement for good management.

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#128

Post by s73v3r »

RogerL wrote: post #9
rdtsc wrote: post #3

Open office "advantage" is the story owners who can't afford to pay for a better location tell the developers. Sort of like the guy whose car broke so he is taking his tractor to work. He would tell the world how tractors are so much better and have all these great advantages compared to regular cars.

I think that is a bit unfair or cynical. I loathe open offices, but plenty of people who have no financial ties to the layout advocate for them (such as my immediate boss). For some reason people believe the "collaboration" argument without evidence, but dismiss the evidence that productivity is lower in open offices. I suspect they are extraverts or high stimulation people that cannot grok introverts or low stimulat…

Does your immediate boss plan on giving up their office as well, and sitting out in the open with everyone?

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#129

Post by banjomonster »

elithrar wrote: post #122
joesmo wrote: post #76

Another negative about open office plans that I don't see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones up to eight hours a day. Headphones are generally not recommended to be used more than an hour a day and even then, they need to be at a low volume, something that's impossible in the open-office plans I've seen/worked in. "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to…

> "As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day" ( http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-hea... ). Out of curiosity, is there a peer-reviewed study on this? Moderation sounds good, but I'd like to understand at what intensity (dB) for what period could potentially constitute hearing loss. The 60% cited in that link seems t…

85-90dB seems to be the where the concerns for hearing damage start, if sustained for 8+ hours.

Some useful (official) tables and charts: https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/standards_more.html https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/new_noise/images/fig3.gif

And this has a nice listing of levels/safe listening times: http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-cente...

Re: Ending the open office epidemic

#130

Post by warfangle »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #108
warfangle wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual distractions are huge. Huge huge huge. As someone who has trouble concentrating in the first place, tiny visual distractions (even just someone shifting in their seat in the peripheral) are enough to pull me out of flow.

I manage that with three 27-inch monitors, arrayed slightly concave towards me.

I'm jealous that your workplace springs for such luxurious accommodations :)
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