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Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

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21–30 of 89 posts

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#21
post #19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there's a difference between looking at someone because they're talking or you're engaging in the meeting with them and staring directly at their boobs. I've been in situations where people are obviously gawping at me and it's incredibly uncomfortable and it's a much, much different experience than when they're idly looking around a conference room because they're bored.

I have a tendency to focus on people who are talking to me to the point that the eye contact makes them uncomfortable. It's a really strange feeling having to remind myself to look away in appropriate intervals. And boobs ... yes I am a human male in his sexual prime and not glancing at boobs is literally impossible. It's like asking me not to breathe. I have recently been informed that human females have a similar p…

you can train yourself to not do this.

i consider myself generally quite misogynistic and horny as hell... so take my word that it is possible.

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#22
post #2

I was talking to one of my best friends who also happens to be a coworker the other day, and I said "Hey, if you're ever a victim of sexual harassment, what can I do to make you feel comfortable with coming to me so that I can attempt to help?" She said "Nothing, really. The problem is that most harassment isn't blatant, it is hidden and not obvious. It's like a feeling that you get from someone. I can't tell you how…

That is a tough one. It's hard because there's nothing "apples to apples" with a male. If some girl stared at my chest, I really couldn't care less.

Now, if a girl made me uncomfortable in some way because of some advance or because she was staring uncomfortable at me in some way, I would let her know.

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#23
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't tell you how many meetings I've been in where the person on the other side of the table is regularly looking at my boobs. in a 3D Euclidean space where do the person is supposed to be looking at? Staring all the time down into the table? Up into the ceiling? Close the eyes every time while moving eyes from ceiling to the table? I'm asking just out of curiousity as personally i just stare either into ceiling…

I mean, there's a difference between looking at someone because they're talking or you're engaging in the meeting with them and staring directly at their boobs. I've been in situations where people are obviously gawping at me and it's incredibly uncomfortable and it's a much, much different experience than when they're idly looking around a conference room because they're bored.

Looking someone continuously in the eyes can also be judged too intense and uncomfortable, and the most natural reaction, at least to me, is to lower your gaze momentarily. This is the thing that (to me, at least) seems least like I'm bored or checking out of the conversation.

It is unfortunate that when talking to females, this puts your eyes in the region of their chest, and there have been instances where I've found myself with my eyes locked on someone's chest and it's really not the intent.

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#24
post #2

I was talking to one of my best friends who also happens to be a coworker the other day, and I said "Hey, if you're ever a victim of sexual harassment, what can I do to make you feel comfortable with coming to me so that I can attempt to help?" She said "Nothing, really. The problem is that most harassment isn't blatant, it is hidden and not obvious. It's like a feeling that you get from someone. I can't tell you how…

One of the problems here is the lack of a feedback loop. Yes these things are subtle but if never dealt with nothing changes. The person looking at the boobs, may nor may not be aware how obvious it is. Not that this makes it okay but it means they have no internal conviction to change the behaviour.

And it may be equally possible that some of the 'feeling you get from someone' could be a total miss read. As long as nothing is said nothing changes. I think a culture where people are willing to deal with the discomfort this sort of thing brings would help. Also a culture where people are not thrown under the bus at the first hint of a problem. It is seen as too much of a risk, to have either an offender or a victim of sexual harassment on staff because of the legal repercussions and that's not okay, that keeps things hidden.

There is also the more blatant instance of sexual harassment in the industry (well in every industry) but I think it's a case of the broken window effect. When the little things are allowed to slide things escalate out of control.

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#25
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there's a difference between looking at someone because they're talking or you're engaging in the meeting with them and staring directly at their boobs. I've been in situations where people are obviously gawping at me and it's incredibly uncomfortable and it's a much, much different experience than when they're idly looking around a conference room because they're bored.

> I've been in situations where people are obviously gawping at me and it's incredibly uncomfortable and it's a much, much different experience than when they're idly looking around a conference room because they're bored. it is your internal interpretation. It may be true or may be not. The point here is that actions - specifically eyes movements - of one persons are supposed to be judged based on interpretation by…

so here's one concrete thing you can do - when a woman says she can tell that someone is staring at her boobs (versus just happening to be looking in that direction), believe her! don't immediately start looking for all the reasons she might be mistaken.

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#26
post #19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there's a difference between looking at someone because they're talking or you're engaging in the meeting with them and staring directly at their boobs. I've been in situations where people are obviously gawping at me and it's incredibly uncomfortable and it's a much, much different experience than when they're idly looking around a conference room because they're bored.

I have a tendency to focus on people who are talking to me to the point that the eye contact makes them uncomfortable. It's a really strange feeling having to remind myself to look away in appropriate intervals. And boobs ... yes I am a human male in his sexual prime and not glancing at boobs is literally impossible. It's like asking me not to breathe. I have recently been informed that human females have a similar p…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#27
post #22
post #2

I was talking to one of my best friends who also happens to be a coworker the other day, and I said "Hey, if you're ever a victim of sexual harassment, what can I do to make you feel comfortable with coming to me so that I can attempt to help?" She said "Nothing, really. The problem is that most harassment isn't blatant, it is hidden and not obvious. It's like a feeling that you get from someone. I can't tell you how…

That is a tough one. It's hard because there's nothing "apples to apples" with a male. If some girl stared at my chest, I really couldn't care less. Now, if a girl made me uncomfortable in some way because of some advance or because she was staring uncomfortable at me in some way, I would let her know.

It's hard because there's nothing "apples to apples" with a male.

Maybe try "apples to bananas"?

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#28
post #6
post #2

I was talking to one of my best friends who also happens to be a coworker the other day, and I said "Hey, if you're ever a victim of sexual harassment, what can I do to make you feel comfortable with coming to me so that I can attempt to help?" She said "Nothing, really. The problem is that most harassment isn't blatant, it is hidden and not obvious. It's like a feeling that you get from someone. I can't tell you how…

>I can't tell you how many meetings I've been in where the person on the other side of the table is regularly looking at my boobs. in a 3D Euclidean space where do the person is supposed to be looking at? Staring all the time down into the table? Up into the ceiling? Close the eyes every time while moving eyes from ceiling to the table? I'm asking just out of curiousity as personally i just stare either into ceiling…

Anywhere but at the boobs, basically.

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#29

The office I work at has several married couples. Some of who have been working there together since before they became couples. Some are at significantly different levels in the corporate hierarchy. Supposedly there is or was one person who "reports" to someone that has nothing to do with their day-to-day work or the rest of their team, because otherwise they'd be (indirectly, a couple levels apart) reporting to the…

I'm having trouble parsing that. Can you say it again, only in PROLOG?

Re: Ask HN: Non-Sexist Behaviour Guidelines?

#30
post #2

I was talking to one of my best friends who also happens to be a coworker the other day, and I said "Hey, if you're ever a victim of sexual harassment, what can I do to make you feel comfortable with coming to me so that I can attempt to help?" She said "Nothing, really. The problem is that most harassment isn't blatant, it is hidden and not obvious. It's like a feeling that you get from someone. I can't tell you how…

[deleted]
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