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Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

makeschool.com

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Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#41
It sounds more like a graduate program than a college education, a sort of Masters in IT entrepreneurship? As a college education, it shortchanges the students:

* There is so much more to life than a job. You will be a citizen; how do you decide on war and peace, economic issues, social policy, etc. without understanding history, politics, economics, social issues, other cultures, languages, etc.? Without being able to grasp and think critically about sophisticated propaganda, and how to challenge ideas? You will be a social animal: A member of the community, a friend, and maybe a parent. You will be a person, a being with an identity and life outside of your cubical; if all you know are technical skills for a job, what are you? What will you get out of life? Where will you learn about the things that make our lives rich, such as the arts -- you know, much of the content that is the purpose of the wires and systems you hope to build.

* There is so much more to a career than one job. If you focus your education on the skills needed for one job at one time, you'll find that soon both you and the world have moved on. The demand for skills change and, more importantly, you will change, and the skills will be obsolete.

* There is so much more to a job than technical skills. As simple examples, you need to understand other people, to undertand other cultures in the U.S. and around the world if you will sell to or help (or work with!) people outside of SV. As was discussed yesterday, some in SV still don't even undertand those people called "females" enough to realize they may not enjoy playing male characters. You need ideas, and most great ideas are outside tech and outside SV and older than 20 years; there are thousands of years of them.

What a sad, myopic, even egocentric view of the world and of education. I feel bad for the people who will encounter so little of the world of knowledge.

EDIT: Minor rewording

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#42

Having met some of the students that went through Make School's summer session, I was very impressed. They seemed to be more widely-experienced and driven than your average student at a top-tier school. Excited to see that Make School is turning this into a full two-year program.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#43
This seems too good to be true. Are there any plans of making the curriculum available to students who are not in the US. Perhaps for a fee? You could reach a wider audience. Don't know how the internship thing would work. As a student on leave from school in the US, this is something i could see myself doing

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#44

It sounds more like a graduate program than a college education, a sort of Masters in IT entrepreneurship? As a college education, it shortchanges the students: * There is so much more to life than a job. You will be a citizen; how do you decide on war and peace, economic issues, social policy, etc. without understanding history, politics, economics, social issues, other cultures, languages, etc.? Without being able…

This tired liberal arts approach of mandatory enlightenment is exactly why we have students graduating with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no marketable skills. Students can become a well-rounded person on their own time, through the many life experiences they can afford when they are not paying off debt. I am so happy to see the world of academia get disrupted, and I cannot wait for the coming revolution where liberal arts education is reserved to those people with a true desire to pursue it.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#45
Sorry, but 25% of a persons salary for two years is a ridiculous amount of money. With a first year programmer making $75-$85k this cost will be similar to college debt. Will these payments qualify as tuition and be tax deductible? That could soften the blow slightly. I like the idea that companies will pay the school for their candidates and relieve the student burden. But why not go all-in on this model and just guarantee that the school will be able to place a graduate? The salary sharing model is just another form of debt.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#46
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"intuitively it seems pretty high risk" for who?

For the company. Depending on how it is implemented, taking a cut of the first 2 years' salary could be very high risk. Intuitively there seems to be little to stop someone taking the education and then absconding abroad.

There is a lot to stop most people from "absconding abroad". Family, friends, culture, language, visa requirements, ...

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#47
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But almost all top schools have needs-blind admissions which means that if you get in, they will provide the financial aid that you need if you can't afford it. So it's actually very unlikely someone gets into a top school but then decides it's not worth the money (assuming the school is worth the money, which it is, and the only issue is whether they can afford it right now).

what college adminstrators will decide you need, and what you think you might need, can differ significantly

I understand, but it still greatly ameliorates the problem, to the point where cost is no longer the main issue when going to a top school (again, assuming you have the money now). The long term payoff is certainly worth it.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#48

It sounds more like a graduate program than a college education, a sort of Masters in IT entrepreneurship? As a college education, it shortchanges the students: * There is so much more to life than a job. You will be a citizen; how do you decide on war and peace, economic issues, social policy, etc. without understanding history, politics, economics, social issues, other cultures, languages, etc.? Without being able…

Is a 6-figure education the only way to achieve those skills?

I don't believe that to be the case.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#49
post #44

It sounds more like a graduate program than a college education, a sort of Masters in IT entrepreneurship? As a college education, it shortchanges the students: * There is so much more to life than a job. You will be a citizen; how do you decide on war and peace, economic issues, social policy, etc. without understanding history, politics, economics, social issues, other cultures, languages, etc.? Without being able…

This tired liberal arts approach of mandatory enlightenment is exactly why we have students graduating with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no marketable skills. Students can become a well-rounded person on their own time, through the many life experiences they can afford when they are not paying off debt. I am so happy to see the world of academia get disrupted, and I cannot wait for the coming…

No it's really not. We have students in debt because they MAJOR in areas where they end up with no marketable skills.

Taking a history class, a philosophy class, and a sociology class along with some economics and science helps you solve problems with people as well as the world around you.

When I was in my 20s and taking those classes I found it a waste of time. Now that I'm older I'm thankful for them.

Can you get well-rounded on your own? Depends. If you only read what people in your bubble tell you to, maybe not so much. Having someone else curate things for you to read, reflect on, discuss, and do has great value in my opinion.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#50
I'm suspicious for two reasons:

1. I struggle to believe that a well-rounded CS and engineering education can be squeezed into two years. Describing this as "the future of computer science education" (their words)—when it appears to be a trade school which teaches CS basics followed by Rails, Python and iOS development—is doing CS a massive dis-service.

There's nothing wrong with this kind of trade school, but it is emphatically not "The future of computer science education".

2. It's rather expensive. What'a a starting salary for a developer in SV - maybe $70k? AT 25% over two years, that's $35k – which is comparable to college debt. It's great that this prevents the broken US higher education funding system, I suppose, but it's not cheap.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I've seen too many graduates of similar trade school programs who have a couple of years of experience on paper, but are woefully under qualified for the development and deployment of computer systems in the real world. Given the sort of attendees this program will see, I don't imagine it'll be the case here, however.

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