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In Defense of the Midwest

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Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#41

Post by [deleted] »

bbcbasic wrote: post #25
jdg wrote: post #14

There is a huge difference between founding a startup in the midwest and being an engineer in the midwest. I believe that gets lost in a lot of the rhetoric from both sides. I love hiring engineers in the midwest. Consistently great work ethics, etc, etc. On the other hand, if you're an entrepreneur, you don't live in SF and you're building a consumer internet startup, you're fucked. Primarily because your access to…

The other side of the coin: If you live in SF and your VC backed startup doesn't experience massive growth then you're fucked. In a cheaper city you can be ramen profitable, or a lifestyle business, or just a regular business or whatever.

[deleted]

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#42

Post by eanplatter »

rdtsc wrote: post #22
bglazer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to add a comment at the end about how I fear that I may be fighting a losing battle against socioeconomic feedback loops. That's profoundly sad to me though. Concentrating all of the technological revolution's talent and wealth in a few cities will have bad effects on the rest of the country.

Wonder if more acceptance of remote work will change this. Image a thousand or ten thousand remote engineers, getting Google salaries. That is a lot of income, a lot taxes, a lot of spending power. There are smaller cities that are called one-company towns. One university, one army base, one large manufacturing plant. That is the largest and most prominent employer in the region. If that one thing goes away, the town…

The trouble comes when companies pay remote employees less if their cost of living is lower, or when they move to another place so they can pay people less. HP did that when they moved to Boise, ID.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#43

Post by joelrunyon »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #34
msutherl wrote: post #24

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the v…

Ha, scathing. But yeah, if a guy has not lived round the world before deciding Ohio is the best place to live, then it's not a very convincing argument.

> If a guy has not lived round the world before deciding Ohio is the best place to live, then it's not a very convincing argument.

I would venture to guess that you haven't been to Ohio.

I'm not claiming that it's an epicenter of amazingness, but I can count at least one person that's decided that's the case (Dave Chappelle).

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#44

Post by ggreer »

I think the main reason the author prefers the midwest is because he was raised there. Property values and migration flows attest to people generally preferring the coasts.

I've lived in a lot of places: The UK, Alabama, Illinois (for a short time), Guam, Washington, New York, and California. Not having a home town, I think I'm better positioned to evaluate these places. My least favorite region is the south, followed closely by the midwest. The reason is simple: overt racism. Nowhere else have I seen such blatant and hateful discrimination. Even if the weather, food, jobs, and night life improved, I'd still shy away from living there.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#45

Post by jobposter1234 »

tracker1 wrote: post #27
rdtsc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every large city (>1M people) will almost certainly have communities of people who share your culture or at least tolerate and support it. That is not enough. There need to be companies willing to hire. Those companies spring around where there is more talent so they don't have to relocate everyone. Where is more talent? Around more companies. It is a feedback loop. Network effect is probably the correct phrase her…

It's worth mentioning that there are plenty of technology positions that aren't for a technology giant... For example in the Phoenix area we have Paypal, Wells Fargo, American Express, GoDaddy, Intel, Motorolla and a number of other very large companies. Many large companies have a presence in multiple cities, not just the tech hubs, and there and many teams have to operate effectively remote (from other members) any…

I'm confused on the point you are making.

Companies that hire programmers live everywhere. Given the disparate perception of a person working at Paypal, etc., compared to a Bay Area startup, even given the difference in purchasing power... Might'n't (?) we conclude that people choose the Bay Area for other reasons than salary and hiring?

Why is the default to believe people in the B.A. are irrational? I say this as someone with no dog in the fight, but have observed each side arguing to defend their bias.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#46

Post by forrestthewoods »

You don't need to defend the midwest. Most people outside of San Francisco couldn't give less of a shit about San Francisco. The three primary smells of SF are urine, human feces, and weed.

I think Seattle folk are becoming increasingly hostile to the idea of moving down there. Some dream of it of course, but I think they're decreasing in number. Google and Facebook are expanding up here because there's so much talent that simply won't move to the bay. And SpaceX is starting a 1000 person studio soon.

Nashville is a good city. I hope it's tech scene continue to grow. Most west coast folk wouldn't dream of living in country music capital of the world. That's might even be a good thing. More opportunities for new people.

Lots of great places to live in the world. SF wouldn't even be in my top 100. So at least take refuge in knowing you're far from alone.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#47

Post by the_cat_kittles »

msutherl wrote: post #24

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the v…

what is your idea of culture?

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#48

Post by Retric »

msutherl wrote: post #24

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the v…

NY produces a lot of art / culture, but as with most things more than 90% of it is crap. If you don't feel like shifting through it then living in NY is pointless.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#49

Post by BrandonM »

pnathan wrote: post #31

When I think of the Midwest these days, I think of St Louis/Ferguson. I think of the price for housing and how it reflects demand . I live in Seattle, so my viewpoint is slightly different, but, eh. I used to live in a rural place, and I don't plan to go back, for a long time, if ever. Let me pick apart this article a bit, and demonstrate how skew these high points are from things I care about. * Housing cost. That's…

* Same for music. Do you want to be in the place where creation happens, or a pit stop on the tour?

This one is bullshit. Plenty of bands came from Ohio, including OAR, the Foo Fighters, and the Black Keys. IMO, the live music scene in Columbus is way better than SF, with a diverse group of talented bands playing every night of the week.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#50

Post by sporkenfang »

bglazer wrote: post #9

I live in Memphis TN and I've found that comments on HN towards the middle of the US are skewed negative. Perhaps I have a bias for remembering negative comments. Nonetheless, I find this attitude perplexing from the HN crowd. I understand the value of physical proximity to lots of other like minded, smart people. However, I would have thought that the tech crowd would be the first to decry the inefficiencies of havi…

My friend, I have absolutely nothing against you, or the majority of people who live in Tennessee. In fact, the great majority of my family live in the part of the South that bleeds into the Midwest... and I live as far west as I can possibly get from them because there's a fundamental disconnect in terms of belief system and interests between them and myself, and between myself and the greater population of conservative areas such as but certainly not limited to Memphis.

I'm not even all that liberal politically (politics are probably a source where disconnect might come from for some hackers), I'm pretty middle-of-the road as far as extremes to the American right and left are concerned -- but when I lived in the South, I felt distinctly uncomfortable and out of place. In California and the PNW and even Colorado, I don't generally feel this disconnect with my surroundings; I feel more connected to the place and with a fraction of the populace greater than just a few individuals.

This is 100% personal, but I don't think I'm entirely alone in expressing these sentiments. I moved away because I was sick of always being uncomfortable, which didn't contribute to my quality of life, nor to that of the people who were probably mutually made uncomfortable. & again, by SF or NY standards, I'm not strange/liberal/letting my freak flag fly in the slightest. I'm (mostly) white, but therein lies part of the problem I have with the Midwest and the South.

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