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In Defense of the Midwest

ntietz.com

31–40 of 182 posts

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#31
When I think of the Midwest these days, I think of St Louis/Ferguson.

I think of the price for housing and how it reflects demand.

I live in Seattle, so my viewpoint is slightly different, but, eh. I used to live in a rural place, and I don't plan to go back, for a long time, if ever.

Let me pick apart this article a bit, and demonstrate how skew these high points are from things I care about.

* Housing cost. That's where the pay difference comes in. And my $800/mo in student loans doesn't change if I live on the coast or in the middle of nowhere. So it's actually better for me, because the proportional cost of fixed payments goes way down.

* Broadway shows, okay. But wouldn't you rather be in a vibrant place where creation happens, than be the "second hand"?

* Same for music. Do you want to be in the place where creation happens, or a pit stop on the tour?

* Sportsball. Meh.

* Foodwise, my mind was blown by the quality difference between St. Louis and Seattle/SF when I visited recently. Maybe I hit the wrong joints, but STL had terrible food. Absolutely shockingly worse. I'll have to shake down some people for more reccs next time.

* Seattle is incredibly friendly and polite. Drivers in the city are probably the friendliest I've ever come across. While it retains the historical Scandinavia reserve, people are really just decent here in general. SF is famous for its collaboration between businesses.

* I don't even understand the idea of wanting to turn off work on a daily basis. I left that attitude behind me when I last worked fast food. The 9-5er attitude is "yuck".

* The author is generally ignoring the intense network effects of having zillions of nerds in the same city.

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Anyway. Not that TFA is wrong. But its priorities are very skew from mine.

I want to live in a place where technology is a significant lifestyle, where nerds are your neighbor, where programmers aren't weirdos. I want to live in a place with tons of cultures colliding and the resultant froth. I want to live in a place where there are new companies forming weekly. I want to live in a place where the optimism is in the air, where young people are flooding around the town with new ideas, new thinking, and crazy things no sane adult would do, and tech is in the heart of all that. Where the next thing is being done at 3 in the morning fuelled by coffee, math, and being young and foolish. Maybe that means I never will leave Seattle/SF/The-next-big-thing until I retire, but I'm okay with that.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#32
For an immigrant Midwest is though. In Bay Area, there are tons of groups of people from countries you've never heard of them. And funny is, all those people are working in technology so in their time together they have a lot of shared interests to talk about.

One other side effect of having more diverse demographics is people are less bios against ethnicity. Because people are exposed to a lot of people from other ethnicities.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#34

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the v…

Ha, scathing. But yeah, if a guy has not lived round the world before deciding Ohio is the best place to live, then it's not a very convincing argument.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#35
post #11

Carnegie Mellon is absolutely in the midwest. Pennsylvania is a big state.

I agree. I grew up in Ohio, and to me, Pittsburgh and the rest of western PA is part of the Midwest. It has the same farmland/steel-town culture that Ohio does.

Obviously Philadelphia is not, so I would argue that the dividing line is somewhere in the middle of the state.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#36
post #7

Ah but it is not a defense of Midwest as a workplace. It is a defense of the Midwest as a living place and effectively working on the West cost, and by implication, getting a West coast salary. If you can do this arangement, it is not bad, agreed. However I found tech jobs wise Ohio was a shithole. The number of available jobs, the salaries, the expectations were just not there when I was looking. Like he said, the p…

> If you can do this arangement, it is not bad, agreed.

I'd say it's a pretty great arrangement ... but probably difficult to pull off. Which means you're screwed if you lose your job. Doubly screwed if you already have a mortgage in place-that's-good-to-live-but-not-to-work.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#37
post #22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to add a comment at the end about how I fear that I may be fighting a losing battle against socioeconomic feedback loops. That's profoundly sad to me though. Concentrating all of the technological revolution's talent and wealth in a few cities will have bad effects on the rest of the country.

Wonder if more acceptance of remote work will change this. Image a thousand or ten thousand remote engineers, getting Google salaries. That is a lot of income, a lot taxes, a lot of spending power. There are smaller cities that are called one-company towns. One university, one army base, one large manufacturing plant. That is the largest and most prominent employer in the region. If that one thing goes away, the town…

I work remote from a small city in the Midwest and easily bring in > 200k servicing select clients from throughout the country. It could be a lot greater if I had any interest in subcontracting/hiring or growing.

While I occasionally visit SF I always get a good chuckle when my friend that lives there talks about how expensive things are and the pains of living there.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#38
For those in the Bay Area, I guess it's worth noting that people from Oakland tend to have an affinity for Cleveland and vice versa. Something I've noticed over the years.

Some of the author's points seem valid but a bit odd (mentioning the Cleveland Jazz Orchestra as being "world-renowned" instead of the Cleveland Orchestra? No mention of the art museums? Mention the Browns several times but not the Cavaliers, especially this year?) but overall it's a good piece. The thing that's missing is this: what makes Cleveland genuinely interesting is that it's a two-hundred year old city which is still figuring out what it's going to be when it grows up. It really could go a few different ways.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#39
This article is particularly relevant to me. I’m originally from a suburb of Cleveland less than half an hour from where the OP works, and I’m currently an undergraduate at Harvard. There are definitely some differences between the areas, and I can’t say that I have the overwhelmingly positive vision of the Midwest that the author of this post has. My feeling is that people in the Midwest are more content with the status quo — they understand what a comfortable life is, and they seek to achieve that. Life is very safe and sheltered, especially growing up there, and I feel that my peers from elsewhere have been exposed to so much more of life than I have.

The Midwest also lacks the intellectual vibrancy that a place like Boston does. It just seems to me that there are overwhelming concentration of smart, ambitious people from the coasts compared to those from the Midwest.

Personally, I love it here in Boston, way more than I do at home. Ohio was a good, safe place to grow up, and I imagine that it’s a great place to raise a family. However, I couldn’t imagine spending any more of my life there than I already have without dying from boredom or a creeping sense of mediocrity.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#40
post #14

There is a huge difference between founding a startup in the midwest and being an engineer in the midwest. I believe that gets lost in a lot of the rhetoric from both sides. I love hiring engineers in the midwest. Consistently great work ethics, etc, etc. On the other hand, if you're an entrepreneur, you don't live in SF and you're building a consumer internet startup, you're fucked. Primarily because your access to…

The other side of the coin: If you live in SF and your VC backed startup doesn't experience massive growth then you're fucked. In a cheaper city you can be ramen profitable, or a lifestyle business, or just a regular business or whatever.

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