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In Defense of the Midwest

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Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#21

Post by L_Rahman »

I used to believe in the Midwest.

Graduated in 2014, moved to Detroit to work for a hardware startup. Live and work downtown, and the professional experience has been phenomenal.

However, the issue that's so frequently left out when discussing the palatability of the Midwest is what it's like to be an Asian American here when you've grown up in a major city on the East or West coast.

And the reality is that it's really difficult. Race goes from being one aspect of your identity to an omnipresent difference that you feel constantly. On the vast majority of days that I spend here, I'm the only person of South Asian origin that I run into. This tends to lend itself to a sense of isolation that's difficult to capture in words.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#22

Post by rdtsc »

bglazer wrote: post #16
rdtsc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every large city (>1M people) will almost certainly have communities of people who share your culture or at least tolerate and support it. That is not enough. There need to be companies willing to hire. Those companies spring around where there is more talent so they don't have to relocate everyone. Where is more talent? Around more companies. It is a feedback loop. Network effect is probably the correct phrase her…

I was going to add a comment at the end about how I fear that I may be fighting a losing battle against socioeconomic feedback loops. That's profoundly sad to me though. Concentrating all of the technological revolution's talent and wealth in a few cities will have bad effects on the rest of the country.

Wonder if more acceptance of remote work will change this. Image a thousand or ten thousand remote engineers, getting Google salaries. That is a lot of income, a lot taxes, a lot of spending power.

There are smaller cities that are called one-company towns. One university, one army base, one large manufacturing plant. That is the largest and most prominent employer in the region. If that one thing goes away, the town will suffer. Remote workers are different because they can hedge that risk. So with more remote work, eventually, perhaps we'll start seeing new patterns emerge, it could revitalize some areas. If there is more talent gathering, a positive feedback loop might start...

Edit: To add, tax incentive structure can be important. Some states do a lot better in that regard. There are even special deals arranged like "If you move your headquarters here, you'll pay lower taxes" or something similar.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#23

Post by lkrubner »

bglazer wrote: post #9

I live in Memphis TN and I've found that comments on HN towards the middle of the US are skewed negative. Perhaps I have a bias for remembering negative comments. Nonetheless, I find this attitude perplexing from the HN crowd. I understand the value of physical proximity to lots of other like minded, smart people. However, I would have thought that the tech crowd would be the first to decry the inefficiencies of havi…

Your view of this is exactly backwards. To get an accurate view of what is happening, start with the assumption that all computer programming can be done remotely, from China or India. Now ask yourself, what kind of computer programming can not be done remotely? The kind that needs constant face-to-face contact, especially to maintain the relationship links between investors and engineers via a CEO. Those jobs need to be in New York or San Francisco.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#24

Post by msutherl »

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices

Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the very definition of "in the middle of nowhere." Your idea of "culture" is Broadway shows, the local jazz orchestra, professional sports, and restaurants. To me, that's all stuff for tourists. Even San Francisco is culturally lacking by New York, LA, London standards.

Fine if you're satisfied by mass-cultural products, but the reality is that most cultural producers migrate to metropolitan centers once they reach a certain level of success and the second-tier cities are left with the loyal, the mediocre, and the novice.

That's not to say that there's nothing interesting going on in second-tier cities, but there's maybe 2 orders of magnitude less activity and the ceiling is far lower.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#25

Post by bbcbasic »

jdg wrote: post #14

There is a huge difference between founding a startup in the midwest and being an engineer in the midwest. I believe that gets lost in a lot of the rhetoric from both sides. I love hiring engineers in the midwest. Consistently great work ethics, etc, etc. On the other hand, if you're an entrepreneur, you don't live in SF and you're building a consumer internet startup, you're fucked. Primarily because your access to…

The other side of the coin: If you live in SF and your VC backed startup doesn't experience massive growth then you're fucked. In a cheaper city you can be ramen profitable, or a lifestyle business, or just a regular business or whatever.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#26

Post by avasylev »

gjmulhol wrote: post #2

I guess I find it a bit off-putting that a blog post trying to dispel stereotypes about a geographic region stoops to saying things like "On both coasts, the pace of life is really, really high: you just go, go, go and work constantly." This might be the norm in New York and Silicon Valley, but the south isn't this way, and I have been to towns as far east as MA that have laid back cultures — visit the town of Welles…

Wellesley MA is one of the most expensive suburbs of Boston with home prices above million, most of IT guys would have to work day and night to live in that laid back culture :)

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#27

Post by tracker1 »

rdtsc wrote: post #13
bglazer wrote: post #9

I live in Memphis TN and I've found that comments on HN towards the middle of the US are skewed negative. Perhaps I have a bias for remembering negative comments. Nonetheless, I find this attitude perplexing from the HN crowd. I understand the value of physical proximity to lots of other like minded, smart people. However, I would have thought that the tech crowd would be the first to decry the inefficiencies of havi…

> Every large city (>1M people) will almost certainly have communities of people who share your culture or at least tolerate and support it. That is not enough. There need to be companies willing to hire. Those companies spring around where there is more talent so they don't have to relocate everyone. Where is more talent? Around more companies. It is a feedback loop. Network effect is probably the correct phrase her…

It's worth mentioning that there are plenty of technology positions that aren't for a technology giant... For example in the Phoenix area we have Paypal, Wells Fargo, American Express, GoDaddy, Intel, Motorolla and a number of other very large companies. Many large companies have a presence in multiple cities, not just the tech hubs, and there and many teams have to operate effectively remote (from other members) anyway.

Phoenix has 80-90% the pay, with significantly less cost of living... other areas can say the same. There is something to be said for being in the Silicon Valley area, but just the same, it's not necessarily better for any given company to be there than any major city with an international airport terminal.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#28

Post by mkoble11 »

maybe i'm reading too much into it, but i find the title bothersome. why start with the premise that the midwest needs "defense"?

there's great stuff happening here, and anyone with an open mind would recognize that. let's talk up our successes instead of being bashful because we're "not SF".

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#29

Post by [deleted] »

vasco_ wrote: post #6

Having lived in Pittsburgh for 10 years, I can say that I miss a lot about that City. I miss the seasons, the people and the landscape, and in Pittsburgh, there are a lot of great technology companies. Nothing compared to SF, of course, but you can definitely have a great life there. The thing that I can't overcome is the lack of an Ocean. It is very to beat a beach sunset after work.

[deleted]

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#30

Post by fjk »

dasil003 wrote: post #18
puls wrote: post #11

Carnegie Mellon is absolutely in the midwest. Pennsylvania is a big state.

Pennsylvania the 33rd largest state. It is definitely not a large state by western standards. I guess if you consider NYC the center of the universe then maybe it's the Midwest, but as a Midwesterner (from Minneapolis) I'm not really feeling that.

I think puls meant that Pennsylvania is a big state in the sense that Philadelphia is considered to be a part of the east coast while Pittsburgh (home of Carnegie Mellon) is often considered to be a part of the midwest.

In that sense, Pennsylvania is a big state. Perhaps "wide" is a better descriptor.

Pittsburgh is kind of a buffer between the east coast and the midwest. Architecturally, it feels more like an east coast city, but culturally it feels more midwestern.

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