Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
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Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#2I didn't understand what this was about, based on the title.
As it turned out, it's an incredibly interesting, important, and sad essay on the severe consequences that exist for women who fight for their own physical/emotional safety (and the safety of others).
If you want to know how people can repeatedly rape coworkers and get away with it, you should read this article.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#3The title with punctuation:
Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready To Call Somebody a Whistleblower
I found it intersting, but there is a part I couldn't really understand.
Does she define rape as an aggretion and not just grey area sex? Because as I understand it it would fall under criminal charges, not 'sexism', most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it, and the police arresting a co-worker wouldn't be whistleblowing, just basic law inforcement.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#4The title with punctuation: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready To Call Somebody a Whistleblower I found it intersting, but there is a part I couldn't really understand. Does she define rape as an aggretion and not just grey area sex? Because as I understand it it would fall under criminal charges, not 'sexism', most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it, and the police arres…
I defined rape as the kind with the (bad) screaming and the blood, or tried to. I am aware that some people steal because they are starving but most theft I have seen was somebody who wanted to prove that they could do it. In the same way, I know some people rape in other complicated situations, but the rape I have seen in my life was individuals who just wanted to prove that they could do whatever they wanted, and nobody was going to stop them.
My reading does not suggest that all rape produces irrefutable physical evidence, nor do I feel confident that reporting rape to our existing justice system would save me from further humiliation and other professional/personal consequences while providing safety. If you have evidence to the contrary, I can't tell you how excited I'd be to hear it.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#5I'm really sad this got downvoted off the front page (this article is only one hour old with 9 points, things 3 hours old with 9 points are still on the page). It's cool if not everybody is interested in talking about this, but I feel like the entire point of this article was that making whistle-blowers harder to hear is not good for society.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#6The title with punctuation: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready To Call Somebody a Whistleblower I found it intersting, but there is a part I couldn't really understand. Does she define rape as an aggretion and not just grey area sex? Because as I understand it it would fall under criminal charges, not 'sexism', most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it, and the police arres…
I defined rape as the kind with the (bad) screaming and the blood, or tried to. I am aware that some people steal because they are starving but most theft I have seen was somebody who wanted to prove that they could do it. In the same way, I know some people rape in other complicated situations, but the rape I have seen in my life was individuals who just wanted to prove that they could do whatever they wanted, and n…
> * nor do I feel confident that reporting rape to our existing justice system would save me from further humiliation and other professional/personal consequences while providing safety*
Has there ever been any evidence that charging a person of power of any crime comes with protection from collateral professional/personal consequences ?
In my personal view, getting raped is enough violence that I wouldn't prioritise my professional or personal comfort over getting justice. I am also considering that if some place would refuse me a job because I got someone charged for a criminal offence, perhaps that's not a place I'd like to work for in the first place.
I understand that can feel idealistic, and some situations can be a lot more complex than that, especially when a whole industry is mainly filled with assholes in power positions. But I'd believe that making things clear (have a judge validate a claim for instance) can help to get away from overly abusive environments and alleviate the "he/she's just making stuff up" bullshit thrown around the victims.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#7The title with punctuation: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready To Call Somebody a Whistleblower I found it intersting, but there is a part I couldn't really understand. Does she define rape as an aggretion and not just grey area sex? Because as I understand it it would fall under criminal charges, not 'sexism', most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it, and the police arres…
It's dangerous to go down the path of talking about "real rape", which is kinda where you seem to be going with this.
Most rape is not "real rape" according to the rapist. Most rape is date rape; the rapist finds a target who is too intoxicated to meaningfully consent (and wouldn't consent when sober), or the rapist is in a position of power over their target (such as a manager with an employee), or they simply don't take "no" for an answer and their target feels they would be in more danger from fighting than from submitting.
Our justice system is not helpful to most rape victims, because it is not "real rape"; with fighting, injuries, blood, bruises, etc. And, most rape victims choose not to report the crime because it would further harm them to go through the process of being grilled by police and forced to relive the experience for an audience of likely unsympathetic or even overtly hostile people (this is not to say all police officers are unsympathetic or hostile to rape reports, but the fear that they will be is real and valid).
"most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it"
Most of the time it is a "he said, she said" situation, and any proof can be interpreted as consensual sex, depending on the person hearing the story.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
I defined rape as the kind with the (bad) screaming and the blood, or tried to. I am aware that some people steal because they are starving but most theft I have seen was somebody who wanted to prove that they could do it. In the same way, I know some people rape in other complicated situations, but the rape I have seen in my life was individuals who just wanted to prove that they could do whatever they wanted, and n…
> * nor do I feel confident that reporting rape to our existing justice system would save me from further humiliation and other professional/personal consequences while providing safety* Has there ever been any evidence that charging a person of power of any crime comes with protection from collateral professional/personal consequences ? In my personal view, getting raped is enough violence that I wouldn't prioritise…
"In my personal view, getting raped is enough violence that I wouldn't prioritise my professional or personal comfort over getting justice. I am also considering that if some place would refuse me a job because I got someone charged for a criminal offence, perhaps that's not a place I'd like to work for in the first place."
This kind of language is clearly coming from a place of privilege...someone who has never experienced a workplace that is overtly hostile to your gender, and where the alternatives ("not a place I'd like to work"; most people have to work somewhere) are slim because many workplaces are overtly hostile to your gender.
This is the danger of assuming that we (as males in an industry built by and for males) can actually offer useful advice or provide a path forward that fixes these problems.
This is not the conversation in which you solve women's problems in tech by telling them what you would do in their situation. This is the conversation where we listen to people who have actually experienced it. (And, yes, I'm a male speaking on this subject, offering advice. But, my advice is to listen to women about their real world experiences in our industry.)
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#9I'm really sad this got downvoted off the front page (this article is only one hour old with 9 points, things 3 hours old with 9 points are still on the page). It's cool if not everybody is interested in talking about this, but I feel like the entire point of this article was that making whistle-blowers harder to hear is not good for society.
Good to see people speaking up with their experiences on this topic, however painful it is - whistleblower is definitely the right word for coming forward about sexual harassment and rape in the workplace.
Re the story dropping down below other stories - it might not be flagging, it seems there are many complex rules all interacting to rank stories so it's hard to know what causes story placement here but it's probably mechanical rather than deliberate. Seems to be moving up again now.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#10I didn't understand what this was about, based on the title. As it turned out, it's an incredibly interesting, important, and sad essay on the severe consequences that exist for women who fight for their own physical/emotional safety (and the safety of others). If you want to know how people can repeatedly rape coworkers and get away with it, you should read this article.
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