Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
tromp.github.io
Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
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Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#2Just because the number of legal positions is computed doesn't mean we're anywhere close to "solving" 18x18 Go, right? What's the utility of computing the number of legal positions?
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#3Just because the number of legal positions is computed doesn't mean we're anywhere close to "solving" 18x18 Go, right? What's the utility of computing the number of legal positions?
No, nowhere remotely close. This is just a matter of trying to precisely characterize the state space; there are upper and lower bounds that have been established, but it's an interesting computational problem to precisely characterize exactly how many legal positions there are.
I think that there's not much utility in this work beyond "it's an interesting challenge," but, well, there's not much utility in any game beyond "it's an interesting challenge."
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#4Just because the number of legal positions is computed doesn't mean we're anywhere close to "solving" 18x18 Go, right? What's the utility of computing the number of legal positions?
something something top-down dynamic programming
shuffles on, muttering
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#5They got 57 legal position for a 2x2 game of go.
They're counting all the symmetries.
They're not pruning anything.
facepalm
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#6They got 57 legal position for a 2x2 game of go. They're counting all the symmetries. They're not pruning anything. facepalm
Rotation and mirroring only buy you a factor of 8, and that's for positions that aren't already symmetric.
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#7They got 57 legal position for a 2x2 game of go. They're counting all the symmetries. They're not pruning anything. facepalm
Of course they are taking symmetries into account. They are including symmetries in their definition of what the different states are, and thus accounting for them in the count, but they absolutely are pruning symmetries in their implementation. Read the draft of the paper (https://tromp.github.io/go/gostate.ps) if you're interested in the techniques.
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#8Just because the number of legal positions is computed doesn't mean we're anywhere close to "solving" 18x18 Go, right? What's the utility of computing the number of legal positions?
No, nowhere remotely close. This is just a matter of trying to precisely characterize the state space; there are upper and lower bounds that have been established, but it's an interesting computational problem to precisely characterize exactly how many legal positions there are. I think that there's not much utility in this work beyond "it's an interesting challenge," but, well, there's not much utility in any game b…
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Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, nowhere remotely close. This is just a matter of trying to precisely characterize the state space; there are upper and lower bounds that have been established, but it's an interesting computational problem to precisely characterize exactly how many legal positions there are. I think that there's not much utility in this work beyond "it's an interesting challenge," but, well, there's not much utility in any game b…
[deleted]
Government funding, collaboration with outside companies and IP. Looks like John Tromp was affiliated with CWI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrum_Wiskunde_%26_Informatic...), which is funded by the Netherlands gov. Take a look at the "spin off companies" section in the wikipedia article. Often government funded research organisations turn some of their research into products to help fund themselves.
Re: Number of legal 18x18 Go positions computed. One more to go
#10So, given all the positions, can you tell which one(s) are possible results of another position after another turn?
// did not know you couldn't do this for chess (paper even pointed to why)