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This bakery will hire anyone

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Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#51

Post by joshmn »

As someone with a bad history -- when I was 17-18; 6 years ago -- this makes me so happy. I'm really fortunate when it comes to employment and work, and I know it's not like this for many other people who have ink on their paper.

I didn't run a malicious drug enterprise, have a wicked meth addiction, kill anyone, or sell my Adderall. Instead, I found my way into a bank's computer system and some financial card records. Some people are cautious with this, personally and professionally, so I explain to them what happened and how it happened and why it happened. If they choose to not accept me for the mistake I _made_, then I remind myself that they're probably not worth my time anyway. If they choose to work with me... I do all I can to change their mind about people in a situation similar to mine.

If there was a silver lining, most would say that my criminal history got me a few gigs relating to fraud prevention and loss. But in my eyes, I think it's that I was able to change the minds of a few people who would have otherwise passed me off for no good - or so I would like to believe.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#52

Post by jim_greco »

Varcht wrote: post #47
jim_greco wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers can't afford to be picky anymore. The unemployment number is now 5.5% and we've had a year of 250k+ jobs added per month. If you want to use anecdotes about Walmart, even they have been forced to increase their wages to retain talent recently. The axe against ex-cons is an ingrained bias that hurts competitiveness. It is an unfortunate 'reality' that it is a bias that is tolerated in America today.

I wouldn't get too excited about that unemployment number. Only ~63% of Americans are even trying to work and a lot of those that are, are under employed. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/628-labor-force-pa... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-06/americans-not-labor...

1) Underemployment is counted in the U-6 measure which has also trended down significantly this year.

2) The workforce participation rate number is meaningless unless you put it into context. How many people would be in the labor force that aren't currently? Is the drop because there was a lot of people retired early after losing their jobs or is it because a lot of young people gave up looking for work?

The economic improvement is undeniable. I would find better reading material then right-wing and conspiracy theorist "news" outlets.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#53

Post by joshfraser »

The inability of convicted felons to find work is a huge contributor to recidivism. When you can't find work, it makes it that much easier to fall back into a life of crime. If we really cared about offering a path to redemption, we would revisit our policies on felony records, maintaining sex offender lists, and placing restrictions on felons ability to vote. Unfortunately prisons are quite profitable (not to mention racist), so the system has been rigged to make it easier for people to fall back to crime that to reintegrate into society.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#54

Post by arrrg »

nostromo wrote: post #24

I think more employers would do this if firing was easier. It's perhaps counterintuitive that making firing cheap, easy, and without large liabilities could reduce our unemployment rate substantially. We should reduce the risk of employers taking a chance on people.

Eh … German labor law, for example, while quite strict when it comes to firing long-term employees, has several mechanisms in place that would make this easily possible with new hires. Lawmakers of course have long recognized that to spur companies to hire new people they have to give them a way out when they notice it doesn't work out during the first couple months.

First, it's possible to time limit an employment contract, e.g. to one year. After that one year the employment is automatically terminated. It is not possible to string time limited contract after time limited contract (if there isn't a reason for the time limit, e.g. another employee has to take care of his kids so there is an urgent need for someone to fill in, it's limited to two years, after which your contract is unlimited), but for new employees it's a tool that can be – and in practice is – used.

Furthermore the (up to) first six months can be a testing period (the law allows it) with severely shortened requirements to giving notice (minimum two weeks from both sides). During this time people can be fired pretty much at will.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#55

Post by DanBC »

Shivetya wrote: post #43
jim_greco wrote: post #9

The lack of second chances we give in America to some of our most unfortunate means that even non-violent offenses can have lifelong consequences. It's shameful.

well it is not like government doesn't have entry level jobs it could apprentice the recently paroled into. From janitorial to grounds maintenance to even becoming a fireman or similar first responder. I do note that this business in the article is not really subject to costly losses from theft. There are likely others of similar nature where this can work. Lastly, back on the government angle. There isn't any reason…

Here's an article about someone caught with 4 pounds[1] of cannabis in his car, in Colorado, before cannabis was legal.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/altered_stat...

The system is blatantly racist. It's kind of weird that Americans tolerate the waste of money and the obvious racism.

http://nytimes.com/2014/07/29/opinion/high-time-the-injustic...

> Only about 6 percent of marijuana cases lead to a felony conviction;

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#56

Post by nostromo »

jfoutz wrote: post #37
nostromo wrote: post #24

I think more employers would do this if firing was easier. It's perhaps counterintuitive that making firing cheap, easy, and without large liabilities could reduce our unemployment rate substantially. We should reduce the risk of employers taking a chance on people.

In the US at least, firing is really easy. "any hiring is presumed to be 'at will'; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals 'for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all,' and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work." Managers are people. I'd imagine there's a fair amount of guilt and shame around firing someone. I also think managers underestimate the damage done by c…

That's true right up until you get sued, then suddenly firing becomes extremely expensive.

Of course, sometimes employers should be sued! So it's a hard nut to crack.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#57

Post by IndianAstronaut »

Varcht wrote: post #47
jim_greco wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers can't afford to be picky anymore. The unemployment number is now 5.5% and we've had a year of 250k+ jobs added per month. If you want to use anecdotes about Walmart, even they have been forced to increase their wages to retain talent recently. The axe against ex-cons is an ingrained bias that hurts competitiveness. It is an unfortunate 'reality' that it is a bias that is tolerated in America today.

I wouldn't get too excited about that unemployment number. Only ~63% of Americans are even trying to work and a lot of those that are, are under employed. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/628-labor-force-pa... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-06/americans-not-labor...

The underemployment figure will always remain high for a while. Normail college degrees aren't worth what they used to be. My dev group was mostly econ and science majors.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#58

Post by pcthrowaway »

gadders wrote: post #29
Stratoscope wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you both for the courage to post this, and for the link to Johann Hari's article. It is a real eye-opener. (If anyone is tempted to skip it because of the HuffPo link, take my word for it, this is well worth reading.)

Don't skip it because it's HuffPo, skip it because it's Johann Hari. He's a plagiarist and a cyber stalker. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

yeah, let's not read the article on barriers to employment because of past offenses written by someone who is presumably trying to make it as a writer with a record of criminal offenses.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#59

Post by A_COMPUTER »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #19

This relates to the hiring post tptacek wrote: "Over the years, Brady has come to suspect that the traditional metrics for determining who will be a good employee are flawed. Someone without an arrest may simply be a person who has never gotten caught." I'm guessing that you can find better people this way, felony or not by providing an on boarding process with the open expectation that not succeeding there means you…

"Someone without an arrest may simply be a person who has never gotten caught."

That argument is like a religious apologetic. Lack of evidence doesn't produce a positive argument for anything. On the other hand past criminal behavior is one of the best predictors of future criminal behavior. I completely agree with your own statement though.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#60

Post by tzs »

sgift wrote: post #45
bequanna wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about 'second chances'. Employers are picky because they can afford to be. They will (mostly) always favor Ivy over state school grads, clean record vs. felon, good credit risk vs. applicant that declared bankruptcy ...and so on. As low economic growth continues, this is only going to get worse. How many middle-aged people do you see working at Target/Wal-Mart now vs. 15 years ago? If you're not highly ski…

> This isn't 'right' or 'wrong', it's just reality. Government-supported reality. You can say that this is okay, but please do not make it look like this is just the way it is: The government could disallow access to all felony records (probably with an exemption for police) and even (if it wanted) provide people with a fake background story for the time they were in prison. Discrimination can only be based on things…

> The government could disallow access to all felony records (probably with an exemption for police)

So instead of searching government records to find out if you have been convicted of a felony when you apply to work for me, I use Google to find a newspaper report of your conviction. Not as reliable, but will still probably turn up most applicants with serious felony convictions.

If we are in one of the 40 state that does not prohibit employers from running credit checks on applicants (or if we are in one of those states but the job is one for which there is commonly an exception that allows credit checks, such as jobs in banking) [1], then I can find addresses of banks and loan providers you have used, and possibly more addresses, giving me geographical areas you have probably been in. I can do searches of the local newspapers there, which would be more likely to cover any less serious felony convictions.

Same goes for the locations of any past employers on your resume.

The internet greatly increased the difficulty of leaving your past behind. Even if the primary record (like the government record of your conviction and sentence) is blocked, you leave plenty of breadcrumbs on your way to the present, and the internet preserves them.

[1] http://www.esrcheck.com/Articles/States-with-Laws-Regulating...

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