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Coding Like a Girl

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Re: Coding Like a Girl

#81
The more people emphasize the differences between men and women the less likely the bad stereotypes are to go away. People whine and repeat about gender differences.

I'd prefer we all just disagree when someone says something is girly. Man up and stand up for men and women's rights to be judged as people not gender without whining when someone fails to do so.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less formal than a ballgown sure, but definitely more formal than jeans.

That really depends on the dress. Dresses can range anywhere from the peak of formality (equivalent to white tie attire for men) to somewhere in the neighborhood to nearly the level of informality as athletic or sleepwear, and anywhere in between.

Either way, out of sync with whatever everyone else was wearing, and when she changed her clothes but not her gender she was accepted by the others.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#83
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its social status. Link? I've found dislike for dialects spoken by poorer people (chavs for example), richer people (valley talk) and completely normal average people of a wide range (bavarian) in myself. In my experience how much i dislike a dialect has always been about how difficult it makes it for me to understand it, in both english and german, and there's literally no pattern to the social status in it.

This kind of proves the point. There isn't any single dialect of English spoken by "chavs", so it must be that you dislike the various dialects that those people speak because they're spoken by those people. Of course the claim is not that people's dislike will always be targeted at groups with a low socio-economic status. E.g. as a British person, I quite dislike "posh" dialects. And that is entirely my problem -- n…

There's a certain specific londonish dialect i'm thinking of, but don't know the name for, so i abbreviated it to chavs, but feel free to extrapolate my thoughts. My problem also isn't the people, my problem is that i cannot fucking make out the words they are trying to form, but i guess you can ignore that too despite me literally saying that in my previous post.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#84
I associate people who believe throwing or acting "like a girl" means doing it half-assed or terribly with people who are either uneducated, close-minded, or just plain assholes.

I understand there's a problem in our country, even in our whole world, but is forcing this down our throats the proper way to solve it? Is it solvable? Not to sound like an asshole myself, but with the route feminism is taking us, we're going to have people hand-feeding women who don't deserve to be in a specific role. I myself have specifically experienced such an event where my manager hired a woman because he said we need to hire one, not because she had experience that made her worthy. In fact she had far less experience compared to the other people interviewing. One of my best friends on the other hand is one of the most kickass programmers I have ever seen and everyone respects her for it. She works for her status, rather than feeding off of being a woman.

People shouldn't judge a book by its cover, as they say. That's what this is all about and I may have gone off-track. However, its also naive to forget or completely deny that people are inherently competitive. People like to boast about themselves, not others. Woman or man, work politics are something everyone has to deal with. It's wrong for someone to use a woman's gender against her competitively, but then again it's also wrong for a man to throw another man "under the bus" or take credit for someone else's work to get ahead. I hope that one day we can work towards being better to humans as a whole rather than better towards a specific gender or race. Maybe I'm an asshole, who knows. Maybe we are all assholes.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#85
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High Rising Terminal is a thing and it has nothing to do with gender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal Edit: Heck, in the segment you link they even comment on the fact that the guy does it too, and it was one of the first things i noticed. Those are just valley people, that's it.

It's not gender-based, but the complaints about it are gender-based.

I can assure you i'll hate the fuck out of you for triggering my question recognition flag without asking a thing, regardless of what's hanging between your legs or what clothes you're wearing, and i know quite a few people who share my sentiments.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#86
post #8

One thing I don't agree with, how is the following feedback gender-specific?: “Why are your slides so pink? It’s very distracting.” “Stop pushing your hair behind your ear when you present. It’s very distracting.” “Your voice goes up after every sentence you say.” I feel like this is all valid feedback. Back in university we would also get feedback on our behaviour during our presentations or the look of our slides.

Especially with the vocal comment, many people get annoyed with female voices when they're in a supposedly serious context. But the thing is that it's not actually some fundamentally annoying or distracting quality of the voice- it's that it's different from what they expect: a male voice. "This American Life" had a great segment about this, targeting "vocal fry" in particular: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a…

The claim that female voices has an effect on speaker quality should seem to be extremely silly for anyone who regularly goes to international conferences. I personally just happy if I can understand the words the speaker is trying to pronounce, and if the concept they are translating from their own native language matches the English words.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#87
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of proves the point. There isn't any single dialect of English spoken by "chavs", so it must be that you dislike the various dialects that those people speak because they're spoken by those people. Of course the claim is not that people's dislike will always be targeted at groups with a low socio-economic status. E.g. as a British person, I quite dislike "posh" dialects. And that is entirely my problem -- n…

There's a certain specific londonish dialect i'm thinking of, but don't know the name for, so i abbreviated it to chavs, but feel free to extrapolate my thoughts. My problem also isn't the people, my problem is that i cannot fucking make out the words they are trying to form, but i guess you can ignore that too despite me literally saying that in my previous post.

I'm not ignoring it, but the whole point is that the reasons that people give for liking/disliking a particular dialect are often not the real reasons. I think it's pretty telling that you chose to identify one of your example dialects using "chav", which is basically a term of abuse directed at a certain social group which isn't dialectically all that homogenous.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#88

I posted this on FB last night and had quite a discussion ensue. I really like what the author has to say about assumptions. As a user group and conference organizer, time and time again I have seen men approach feminine people in the crowd with these just terribly naïve prejudices. "Oh, you must be a junior dev." Or "Who are you here with?" We men should absolutely try to set these poor assumptions aside -- if not f…

Or if one is going to make an assumption, err on the side of unoffensive ones. If there is a chance that it is offensive, don't verbalize it.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#89
post #56
post #45

[deleted]

I downvoted you because I think this is a thoroughly unreasonable and unfair attitude, but I'm starting to regret it. I've heard similar ideas from a few male acquaintances, and if there are a significant number of people in tech culture who feel similarly, the topic is worth discussing regardless of its merit.

[deleted]

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#90
“Why are your slides so pink? It’s very distracting.” “Stop pushing your hair behind your ear when you present. It’s very distracting.” “Your voice goes up after every sentence you say.” and comments rating my appearance.

My Technical Communications professor told me to not add flashy colors to my slides, be careful about too much distracting movement especially hand movements, speak consistently and wear clothing that doesn't distract from the material.

Either she is sexist towards men or this article is desperate. I think it might be the former, but I could be wrong.

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