Coding Like a Girl • Hacker News Board

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#31

Post by rjbwork » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #14

skj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially with the vocal comment, many people get annoyed with female voices when they're in a supposedly serious context. But the thing is that it's not actually some fundamentally annoying or distracting quality of the voice- it's that it's different from what they expect: a male voice. "This American Life" had a great segment about this, targeting "vocal fry" in particular: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a…

Voices going up - as in, asking a question(?) - is annoying whether it's a female voice or male voice.

That's when you're SUPPOSED to end your sentence by going up. That is the natural pattern. Doing it at the end of everything else is the annoying part.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#32

Post by rjbwork » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

cezar_sl wrote: post #7

gaius wrote: post #6

The dress story vs jeans, would apply equally to a guy in a suit and tie vs a hoodie.

There was a story here a while ago, about a guy who got rejected at an interview because he went dressed in a suit and tie, and was deemed "not a good culture fit".

We actually had to let go the only person to have come to our interview in a suit and tie that we actually hired...there is not a good track record.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#33

Post by JDiculous » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

mgkimsal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voices going up - as in, asking a question(?) - is annoying whether it's a female voice or male voice.

It's a feature heavily associated with female voices. So it is discrimination against female voices. It's also not something people do consciously, it is a feature of dialect. And studies show that why people dislike a dialect has nothing to do with its actual aural qualities, and everything to do with its social status .

Are you serious? Just because it's more common with females doesn't make it discrimination. Just because poor black people are more likely to commit crimes doesn't mean that criticizing criminals makes you racist and classist. Come on now, this is basic logic.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#34

Post by Mithaldu » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

mgkimsal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voices going up - as in, asking a question(?) - is annoying whether it's a female voice or male voice.

It's a feature heavily associated with female voices. So it is discrimination against female voices. It's also not something people do consciously, it is a feature of dialect. And studies show that why people dislike a dialect has nothing to do with its actual aural qualities, and everything to do with its social status .

> its social status.

Link?

I've found dislike for dialects spoken by poorer people (chavs for example), richer people (valley talk) and completely normal average people of a wide range (bavarian) in myself. In my experience how much i dislike a dialect has always been about how difficult it makes it for me to understand it, in both english and german, and there's literally no pattern to the social status in it.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#35

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#36

Post by sgift » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

thomasmarcelis wrote: post #21

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If you were to make a stereotypically "masculine" presentation, you wouldn't get negative comments on it.

Pink just is a bright colour. Bright colours can distract if used plenty. I've had the same comment on using too many yellow.

Black and yellow, beloved combination of many Star Wars fans, also known as "death of readable presentations" (yes, I got that comment and I've learned to never do this again)

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#37

Post by rjbwork » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

wodenokoto wrote: post #10

gaius wrote: post #6

The dress story vs jeans, would apply equally to a guy in a suit and tie vs a hoodie.

Which one can't program? Suit or hoodie? I often wear a suit or dress shirt and people don't assume I'm clueless to know about IT.

Suit and tie. You will be viewed with mistrust as a business type until you prove otherwise.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#38

Post by pfooti » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

thomasmarcelis wrote: post #5

One thing I don't agree with, how is the following feedback gender-specific?: “Why are your slides so pink? It’s very distracting.” “Stop pushing your hair behind your ear when you present. It’s very distracting.” “Your voice goes up after every sentence you say.” I feel like this is all valid feedback. Back in university we would also get feedback on our behaviour during our presentations or the look of our slides.

The story I got from the article is (a) feminine presenters are more likely to get that kind of feedback, and (b) masculine presenters are more likely to get feedback on the content of the presentation.

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#39

Post by hderms » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

spcoll wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feedback makes it clear that acting feminine is considered a weakness, instead of a strength. You shouldn't be ashamed to look beautiful, wear dresses and make-up, and present cute slides with a pink theme and occasional kitty picture. This is what the whole "like a girl" is about: if you express your femininity in the things you do and the way you look, people associate that with incompetence.

Exactly. If you were to make a stereotypically "masculine" presentation, you wouldn't get negative comments on it.

what would be a stereotypically masculine presentation? not trying to bait or anything, I'm just curious what that would be? Some kind of bro-ish stuff included?

Re: Coding Like a Girl

#40

Post by rjbwork » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #15

gaius wrote: post #6

The dress story vs jeans, would apply equally to a guy in a suit and tie vs a hoodie.

Wait, are you saying the dress is too formal, or not formal enough ?

Too formal. It's pretty well known that dev/nerd culture is very pro-casual and anti-formal. The reason for this, in my opinion, is because we are very much a "function over form" culture. People who might be trying to compensate for lackluster ability by impressing with their overly nice dress are usually initially viewed with mistrust.