GPS tracking device found on an activist's car • Hacker News Board

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#61

Post by dec0dedab0de » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 2:49 AM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #46

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. It's extremely important that we as engineers be ethical about what we build. If you are enabling a surveillance state, I think many people would consider that to be harmful to public welfare.

The problem is that a lot of people genuinely think "If a large institution approved of it, it must be good". Which is a lot scarier than people not giving a damn about good or evil. Morality is not something you outsource.

The bigger problem is that many potentially evil things are really cool.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#62

Post by flnet » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 2:54 AM UTC

throwawayaway wrote: post #5

soon these will be built in, a great win for humanity.

modern cars already have this built in... either this one didn't because it's an older car or they didn't have access to that data.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#63

Post by tomkinstinch » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:10 AM UTC

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #40

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aw man I loved your comment right up to the point where you gave people a suggestion on how to make better surveillance tech :(

Seriously. It's extremely important that we as engineers be ethical about what we build. If you are enabling a surveillance state, I think many people would consider that to be harmful to public welfare.

Ethical engineering is important. With great capability comes great responsibility. This is why I think it is good for engineering students to take as many courses in the humanities and liberal arts as possible, to get better perspectives on the world we're all building for.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#64

Post by X-combinator » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:18 AM UTC

tomkinstinch wrote: post #4

Very few companies produce GPS chips. Most devices that include GPS capability do not bother to reinvent the wheel, but instead elect to integrate an existing GPS processing chip. It's unlikely the GPS module is integrated with the processor core of this thing. Since it is likely separate, it would be fun to probe the PCB with a logic analyzer to see if there are any exposed serial (or possibly I2C, SPI) traces relay…

This story reminds me of this:

http://ericpetersautos.com/2014/05/13/heebie-jeebies/

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#65

Post by pj_mukh » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:18 AM UTC

tomkinstinch wrote: post #4

Very few companies produce GPS chips. Most devices that include GPS capability do not bother to reinvent the wheel, but instead elect to integrate an existing GPS processing chip. It's unlikely the GPS module is integrated with the processor core of this thing. Since it is likely separate, it would be fun to probe the PCB with a logic analyzer to see if there are any exposed serial (or possibly I2C, SPI) traces relay…

Awesome! Another way would be to spoof the GPS signal entirely. No hardware hacking required! http://gpsworld.com/drone-hack/

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#66

Post by mschuster91 » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:19 AM UTC

Seriously, these things can be bought COTS in WAY better shape for 35€ ( http://www.pearl.de/a-PX3490-1511.shtml ). If you want to hide it, just wrap it in black tape. I wonder who chose to self-build this thing with cheap-ass kits being available...

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#67

Post by tomkinstinch » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:20 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #19

tlrobinson wrote: post #9

It would be interesting to figure out where the data is being sent. It could probably be done in a variety of ways (JTAG? Replace the SIM card and setup a fake GSM base station? Check your local laws...). It would be pretty ironic if they routed through Tor...

It should be relatively easy to pop the SIM card out and use an off the shelf forensics tool. Those things have like 64kb of storage. At the least you'd get the phone's number and IMEI.

Not sure forensics tools are needed; getting the phone number and IMEI should be a Hayes command[1] away. Throw the SIM into something like a Telit GM862 (which runs Python) and you have a full scriptable phone. I played with that module seven years ago and there are bound to be better ones now.

1. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayes_command_set

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#68

Post by vonuebelgarten » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:43 AM UTC

tomkinstinch wrote: post #4

Very few companies produce GPS chips. Most devices that include GPS capability do not bother to reinvent the wheel, but instead elect to integrate an existing GPS processing chip. It's unlikely the GPS module is integrated with the processor core of this thing. Since it is likely separate, it would be fun to probe the PCB with a logic analyzer to see if there are any exposed serial (or possibly I2C, SPI) traces relay…

It would be fun injecting fake paths to some NSA datacenter, a military supplier IC foundry, Area 51, and CIA HQ. The people monitoring him may draw some strange conclusions.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#69

Post by BoppreH » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:44 AM UTC

tomkinstinch wrote: post #4

Very few companies produce GPS chips. Most devices that include GPS capability do not bother to reinvent the wheel, but instead elect to integrate an existing GPS processing chip. It's unlikely the GPS module is integrated with the processor core of this thing. Since it is likely separate, it would be fun to probe the PCB with a logic analyzer to see if there are any exposed serial (or possibly I2C, SPI) traces relay…

There might be more than one device, and if it's transmitting over GSM they can triangulate by the towers.

Re: GPS tracking device found on an activist's car

#70

Post by vonuebelgarten » Sat, Mar 07, 2015, 3:53 AM UTC

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #40

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aw man I loved your comment right up to the point where you gave people a suggestion on how to make better surveillance tech :(

Seriously. It's extremely important that we as engineers be ethical about what we build. If you are enabling a surveillance state, I think many people would consider that to be harmful to public welfare.

There is a lot of ethical uses of such trackers (e.g. a company tracking its own vehicles, shipping container tracking, etc.). We can't assume the developer of the original board knowingly designed it for evil purposes.

Full disclosure: I design smart-grid and telemetry applications, including a GSM + GPS device (GPS was initially used for getting accurate timestamps, but we also added positioning registers, which made the field maintenance people very happy).