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The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

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Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#11
post #8

That's cute. You think the US government is still bound by the Bill of Rights.

or ever was

Only when convenient.

Which is why I find myself reluctantly siding with the vehement nature of gun rights advocates in spite of really desiring a world where guns would not be necessary to possibly keep the "government" (which is increasingly fewer and fewer people with more and more oppressive laws) at bay.

On a side note, I find it ironic that those who would most need guns to both protect themselves from the kind of government that "gun nuts" fear and under possible circumstances of social collapse to protect themselves from "gun nuts", are also the least likely to know how to properly operate with them or want to keep guns for self protection. There is really very little that would allow me to believe our society is even remotely civilized or responsible enough to not necessitate an armed population.

Just take this story for example. Is anyone in the government saying no, you know what, the precursors of mind-reading are too far and not in line with the spirit of the very first and most basic principle of this country. No, you don't and wont hear that, just like you haven't heard that about all the other abuses and violations that have preceded this. Hell, we have the very thing that the "crazies" used to warn about, just even better, self-maintained dossiers on every single person in the country in the form of aggregated social profiles and internet tracking and monitoring.

Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or ever was

Only when convenient. Which is why I find myself reluctantly siding with the vehement nature of gun rights advocates in spite of really desiring a world where guns would not be necessary to possibly keep the "government" (which is increasingly fewer and fewer people with more and more oppressive laws) at bay. On a side note, I find it ironic that those who would most need guns to both protect themselves from the kind…

I don't understand the idea that gun rights are important because it helps to check oppressive government.

Aren't oppressive gun regulations the sort of thing that guns would let you fight against? It's always presented as, "this must be legal, or else we will lose our ability to fight for freedom." If guns don't let you preserve gun rights, how will they let you preserve any other rights?

Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#15
post #8

That's cute. You think the US government is still bound by the Bill of Rights.

Even Henry VIII had to come up with a plausible legal justification for breaking with the Catholic Church.

Being "bound by the Bill of Rights" does not mean that the government must give effect to the broadest interpretations of Constitutional protections. It only means that it must follow clear dictates when they exist, and offer plausible legal constructions when they don't. What we've learned about the NSA programs indicates that the government internally tries to toe what well-defined lines exist without crossing them. Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about minimization procedures or the distinction between data and metadata.

This article is a great example of the concept. If a police officer walked by your farm in 1789 and saw smoke from a fire, it would not be protected by the 4th amendment. It's totally reasonable for the government to argue that the same principle allows them to observe infrared emissions from inside a house, and it's totally reasonable for the Supreme Court to conclude otherwise. It only becomes unreasonable if the government ignores the dictate once the rule is clear.

Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#17
FAST seems to be some kind of polygraph-type scanner using cameras. It's very likely that it doesn't work but some military contractor will make millions off of it anyway. Any efficacy data will probably be unavailable or classified. Efficacy doesn't matter to the authorities anyway because having people believe that their minds are being read is almost as good as actually reading their minds.

Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#18
It seems to me that the law and precedent are used by courts much like the Bible is by preachers. You can justify almost anything you want.

I read the whole paper (sans footnotes) and it makes a lot of sense. Had I not also read the legal memo on extra-judicial assassinations, I'd be a lot more confident that an average person could predict court decisions based on the current body of law and precedent. But I think any decision can be reached, at least in practical effect, considering the power to dismiss cases and exclude evidence.

Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#19
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only when convenient. Which is why I find myself reluctantly siding with the vehement nature of gun rights advocates in spite of really desiring a world where guns would not be necessary to possibly keep the "government" (which is increasingly fewer and fewer people with more and more oppressive laws) at bay. On a side note, I find it ironic that those who would most need guns to both protect themselves from the kind…

I don't understand the idea that gun rights are important because it helps to check oppressive government. Aren't oppressive gun regulations the sort of thing that guns would let you fight against? It's always presented as, "this must be legal, or else we will lose our ability to fight for freedom." If guns don't let you preserve gun rights, how will they let you preserve any other rights?

Also, how would guns help against such a powerful military as the US has?

Re: The TSA's FAST Personality Screening Program Violates the Fourth Amendment [pdf]

#20
post #15
post #8

That's cute. You think the US government is still bound by the Bill of Rights.

Even Henry VIII had to come up with a plausible legal justification for breaking with the Catholic Church. Being "bound by the Bill of Rights" does not mean that the government must give effect to the broadest interpretations of Constitutional protections. It only means that it must follow clear dictates when they exist, and offer plausible legal constructions when they don't. What we've learned about the NSA program…

> What we've learned about the NSA programs indicates that the government internally tries to toe what well-defined lines exist without crossing them.

?? Is this before or after Clapper lies under oath to congress? is this before or after the Senate Torture report came out along with the revelation that the NSA tampered with evidence.

I struggle to understand how you rationally form such a conclusion. We only know this occurs because of a whistle blower who his own government now calls a fugitive. You truly believe the government constrains itself and follows the law in "well-defined lines", I really struggle with taking you seriously, the government has greatly warped common sense -- do you recall the torture memos, the strange legal reasoning that calls torture "enhanced interrogation techniques", do you believe the "disposition matrix" lives within well-defined lines? How would you even know sense so much of even the LEGAL reasoning is secret and above purview.

Outrageous dangerous claims you are making and it is disgusting.

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