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Fired

zachholman.com

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Re: Fired

#131

Post by jghn »

enraged_camel wrote: post #68
ChuckMcM wrote: post #51

I have often said that companies rarely take it personally when you decide to leave them, so don't take it personally when they decide to leave you. Easy to say and hard to do, like a lot of things in life. Mostly it is the illusion of control, you don't have it, you only have choices you can make in the face of unfolding events. At Zach points out, companies change as they grow, they are some weird strange attractor…

>>I have often said that companies rarely take it personally when you decide to leave them, so don't take it personally when they decide to leave you. Easy to say and hard to do, like a lot of things in life. People take getting fired personally because, at least in America, a person's job is a huge part of not just their self-identity, but also their social image. So when they lose that job, it's like they lose a pa…

It also often means "we think you suck and you're not worthy of working here". So yes, if someone told me that I was a disgrace, it'd sting a bit. I realize that not everyone fires for that reason these days, particularly in tech, double particularly in SV, but hey.

And yes, also companies can take it personally when you leave, or at least people in one's immediate periphery can.

Re: Fired

#132

Post by JDiculous »

codezero wrote: post #106
JDiculous wrote: post #92

Why is this on the front page? Because he worked at GitHub? What was the point of this?

A lot of people in tech struggle with the frustration of being fired, or potentially being fired. This post helps to relieve some of the stigma associated with that, and coming from someone who very clearly worked hard at a notable company for a number of years, is also a reminder that people change, and companies change. Did you read the post? Is there anything about it that you found detestable?

I did read the post and didn't find anything detestable at all. It just didn't have much substance given that it's the top post on the front page of HN. He basically just said he got fired, and that being fired has too harsh of a stigma attached to it. Ok, I agree, but is that it? He didn't even touch on why he was fired.

If he was anonymous software engineer at , I doubt this would've gotten any attention. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but when I read this post, the first thing that popped to my head was "senior employee fired from high-profile tech company uses subliminal social media marketing to reach front page of HN and land next job." But hey, props to him, it seems to be working.

Re: Fired

#133

Post by vhodges »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #99
ianlevesque wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can do everything right and still get fired And that's why much of the world has a social safety net.

I don't disagree. As a US citizen, I pine for the social safety nets in Canada and Europe. I'm playing the hand I was dealt.

I can't speak to what Europeans have, but as a Canadian I can. It's not all it's cracked up to be. In BC MSP (Medical Services Plan) is $54/Month for an individual and it's mandatory whether you're employed or not. The amount is probably different in other provinces as medical is a provincial concern (and indeed, coverage varies from province to province). Employers usually offer extended medical, covering things like dental, eyewear, prescriptions etc. This all goes away when you're let go.

We have employment insurance, which is also mandatory (mostly) to pay into, but it only pays about 1700/month and payments only last 15 weeks (after a 3 week waiting period). Yes, it's nice to have some money coming in, but it's nowhere near enough for more than a month or two.

And lastly Welfare only pays about $650/Month not even enough for rent anywhere Metro Vancouver or the Fraser Valley.

Re: Fired

#134

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

I've never been fired. But I've been very unhappy at a job. I left about six-months or a year before I probably would have been fired, had I stayed.

I usually try to leave a job before I'm so miserable that I stop doing work and get fired.

Re: Fired

#135

Post by jmartinpetersen »

JDiculous wrote: post #92

Why is this on the front page? Because he worked at GitHub? What was the point of this?

The post itself touches upon an important issue. Some of the speculation about what happened at Github, though, seems to be the HN version of tabloids.

Re: Fired

#136

Post by thieving_magpie »

davidw wrote: post #96
MCRed wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But part of the problem is that in a meritocracy you need people to know who the bad actors are. It seems pretty obvious from outside Github that something has gone rotten in the company over the past couple of years, and the is the latest of the smells. Now any one of us could end up hiring that rotten apple from github in the future, if we don't know who it is. Of course you don't want to slander or libel people, b…

It's pretty rare that someone really gets what's coming to them. This dude created some serious problems where I worked 15 years ago, and yet he still keeps getting hired: http://www.advogato.org/proj/DougNassaurWatch/ http://www.suncapinc.com/Doug_Nassaur.htm

Good lord you really hate that guy.

Re: Fired

#137

Post by mod »

NateDad wrote: post #124
cylinder wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have mandatory unemployment insurance which pays pretty well. These are well-paid white collar professionals, they should be saving up emergency funds. I'm more worried about the safety net for low- and mid-income workers, as well as the fact that health insurance is tied to your employment.

Uh, have you been on unemployment? There's a max. In Massachusetts it's $698 / week (with no taxes taken out). That would only barely cover my mortgage, let alone car payment, food, health insurance, etc. And yes, people should have emergency funds... but when you were a few years out of college, did you have 3-6 months of salary saved up? I certainly didn't.

I don't think the "social safety net" was intended to keep wealthy people wealthy.

It's to ensure basic needs are met.

If you want to remain wealthy, you should probably not count on unemployment to play a role in that.

Re: Fired

#138

Post by NateDad »

lchengify wrote: post #91

Re: Zach's COBRA question. For those who don't know, COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act) is a law passed in 1985 [1] that compels companies to offer "continuing health insurance" to employees that leave the company for any reason other than "gross misconduct". Basically it means that you can pay the company directly for your employer's health plan for a period of time, typically 18 months. The out-…

Just to clarify.... it's retroactive for 60 days. That means you don't really have to do anything for the first 45-ish, and if you don't need insurance in that time, and you get a new job, you're done.

If you do need insurance (break a leg or something), then you can apply then, and it'll take effect retroactively to your departure date.

If you get to 45-ish days and still don't have a new job that'll start before the 60 day mark, you'll need to sign up, or you risk getting hurt after the 60 day mark, when you then can't get insurance, and you'll be SOL.

I am not a lawyer, I've just been between jobs many times in my career :)

Re: Fired

#139

Post by kelnos »

halostatue wrote: post #61

I’ve been fired three times. The first time was early in my career. A site manager decided to impose working hours that (a) were in opposition to how I was recruited and (b) not what the client wanted, but (c) didn’t matter anyway because the site manager had the power to do that. This was no great loss. I was better off out of there than working under those circumstances. I had a new job a month later paying 50% mor…

This one…I had to address why I was no longer at the company clearly, directly, and without evasion or disparagement. I handled it very well, I think.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I could sometimes use some lessons in diplomacy...

Re: Fired

#140

Post by crusso »

meowface wrote: post #113
crusso wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real tragedy is, learning business is not hard. Any programmer can do it. As a person who's switched back and forth between the technical person, the manager, and the business developer - I can tell you that all of the roles in the company take skill to do properly.

You're right, but it's no doubt much easier for an engineer to learn business and sales than for a business person to become good at programming and write production code daily.

Learning a little programming isn't any harder than learning something about management or sales - it's just that most people don't bother to do it. My mom was 60 when she started learning HTML and javascript. She does just fine updating web pages, forms, etc. for her quilting and singing groups.

I have a lot of respect for good engineers, good managers, and good salespeople. Saying that one discipline is harder than the other is like saying that being a good violin player is any harder than being a good piano player.

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