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Google seems to have broken email forwarding

jwz.org

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Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#171

Post by snowwrestler »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #136
nitrogen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emails in response to you direct action (placing an order) are the very definition of solicited email.

No, emails that you ask to receive are the definition of solicited email. When was the last time the grocery store emailed you confirming that you'd just paid for your groceries?

My grocery store gives me a printed receipt when I pay for my groceries. And I don't ask them to do that--they just print one up and hand it to me.

Amazon can't give you a printed receipt because you are not there, physically. So they send you an email instead.

This is not that hard to understand.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#172

Post by e12e »

specialp wrote: post #35
cssmoo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had delivery problems to gmail for years, I couldn't agree more. However Yahoo are an order of magnitude worse when it comes to delivering email. If they decide you aren't their friend, they send back an error code with a URL in it to go and visit and identify yourself via a web form that is reviewed rarely by some humans. Then if you fuck that form up or if they don't like you, blackholed for 6 months and the…

I had that experience with Yahoo. I sent a single email to my brother whom has an account on Yahoo with SPF, DKIM, and not in any blackhole files. I received their 421 response "All messages from x.x.x.x will be permanently deferred; Retrying will NOT succeed." and my only recourse was to fill in a "bulk email prioritization form" I was not sending bulk email and was thus denied for that program (nobody read my expla…

I really think this used to be a problem. Why anyone in their right mind would even consider using Sendmail these days, is beyond me. I use exim - because I've used at work, and it's default in Debian -- but I'd generally recommend either postfix, or probably openbsd's opensmtpd (it's in Debian unstable). It's not really that hard, AFAIK no sane distros will set up an open relay out of the box anymore, and that's really all there is to it. Assuming you're serving less than a thousand users or so (eg: one user ;-).

Might want to set up greylisting, though, to curb incoming spam.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#173

Post by wpietri »

jackweirdy wrote: post #69
keithnoizu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have the various auth headers setup on for your mx records? I have to go through that ordeal occasionally when setting up outgoing emails for sendgrid or mailchimp campaigns. There are some things you can due to reduce the likely hood of mail being auto flagged as spam although in a lot of ways it is out of your hands.

https://www.mail-tester.com is a great tool for testing this.

Ooh, that is nice. Sadly, I am at 10/10, so I still have no explanation why GMail hates me.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#174

Post by Tiksi »

throwawayaway wrote: post #162
thaumasiotes wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a person who frequently buys from Amazon, I've never experienced this. (No, it's not that promotional email from Amazon is going into my spam folder. I have to check my spam folder semi-regularly because gmail keeps flagging perfectly legitimate email as spam.) The mail I get from Amazon is order confirmations and a newsletter that I specifically signed up for. What's this promotional email that you're ta…

http://imgur.com/yqsYyPY of the 64 emails I have from them 50 are spam of this nature.

And if you open any of them, there is a convenient link to unsubscribe from them:

http://paste.click/fOAtyL

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#175

Post by vacri »

agwa wrote: post #170
vacri wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the users' gmail accounts 'gmail.com' or 'mydomain'? Because I've sent mail from servers using a google mailbox to authenticate, and the from field was overwritten with the name of the mailbox used.

The users' gmail accounts are at user@gmail.com, but they're sending mail as user@mydomain, via mydomain's authenticated SMTP server. This is exactly the scenario described in the comment at jwz.org.

I read it as the opposite of jwz. You say your users are sending mail via "mydomain" SMTP. jwz says his users are sending mail "from their phone up to Google's SMTP server".

The goog then sends mail to the receiver at 'dnalounge' MX, where it's then shuffled back to the receiver's gmail mailbox. I don't read his setup as having the sender involved with the dnalounge SMTP server at all.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#176

Post by cptn_brittish »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #154
johnduhart wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When was the last time the grocery store emailed you confirming that you'd just paid for your groceries? Never because my grocery store isn't a website.

OK. When was the last time facebook emailed you to confirm that you liked a comment?

The last time I had Facebook emails before I marked Facebook as spam every action which somehow concerned me on Facebook resulted in me getting a email and consequently flooding my inbox. Admittantly this was a few years ago when I finaly had enough of it so they might of gotten better but at one point they did.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#177

Post by reitanqild »

fifthesteight wrote: post #163
reitanqild wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I suggest you take a break yes. I find hn a really to be a really good combination of intelligent, grown up discussion with little name-calling etc. That said, I think on hn one must be prepared to be corrected, -that's just part of being scientifically minded. As the old saying goes: "Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another."

Yeah that's the consensus, and that's what it was meant to be, that's what it once was. However these days, especially in a community where only certain individuals can downvote, they become the only ones to control the discussion. What was supposed to encourage a higher level of discussion has instead created a community that is the exact opposite. Who cares about my stupid comments, sure, I'm an idiot- I'll agree t…

I agree that there is too many incorrect downvotes given.

I don't think it is a big problem though only that it has been slightly increasing.

(one comment you'd see back in the days when comment scores where displayed was: "sorry for the downvote, -reading hn from a mobile device ". You don't see this comment anymore but I'm not sure if that is because it was easier to detect accidental downvotes back then or because people where more polite.)

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#178

Post by thaumasiotes »

snowwrestler wrote: post #171
thaumasiotes wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, emails that you ask to receive are the definition of solicited email. When was the last time the grocery store emailed you confirming that you'd just paid for your groceries?

My grocery store gives me a printed receipt when I pay for my groceries. And I don't ask them to do that--they just print one up and hand it to me. Amazon can't give you a printed receipt because you are not there, physically. So they send you an email instead. This is not that hard to understand.

Stores don't give you receipts for your benefit. They print receipts to make sure the cashier isn't dipping into the cash register.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#179

Post by thaumasiotes »

throwawayaway wrote: post #162
thaumasiotes wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a person who frequently buys from Amazon, I've never experienced this. (No, it's not that promotional email from Amazon is going into my spam folder. I have to check my spam folder semi-regularly because gmail keeps flagging perfectly legitimate email as spam.) The mail I get from Amazon is order confirmations and a newsletter that I specifically signed up for. What's this promotional email that you're ta…

http://imgur.com/yqsYyPY of the 64 emails I have from them 50 are spam of this nature.

I can't help but notice that all of those come from amazon.co.uk. As evidence-free speculation, perhaps there's a problem at a lower level than "Amazon the company". This sort of thing would certainly help explain why some people are extremely upset about spam from "Amazon" and other people are taking the position "you're crazy".

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#180

Post by thaumasiotes »

cptn_brittish wrote: post #176
thaumasiotes wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. When was the last time facebook emailed you to confirm that you liked a comment?

The last time I had Facebook emails before I marked Facebook as spam every action which somehow concerned me on Facebook resulted in me getting a email and consequently flooding my inbox. Admittantly this was a few years ago when I finaly had enough of it so they might of gotten better but at one point they did.

Yes, I picked facebook as an example specifically because of their reputation for emailing you about everything. But I think you'll find that they tend to email you when other people do something that, in some sense, concerns you, not when you do something. (Remember the ancestor comment defining "solicited email" as email that responds to an action you take.) "This person just liked your comment" emails are plausible. "You just liked this person's comment" emails are self-evidently absurd, but they fall perfectly within the (spurious) definition of "solicited" that nitrogen wants us to believe in.
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