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Seneca on the proper use of time

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Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#11

Post by Mz »

guelo wrote: post #9
snikeris wrote: post #8

Time is an illusory phenomenon that arises due to memory.

So that leads to, if we could inject memories we could live more than a lifetime's worth. Or maybe accessing others' memories via stories, (reading, movies, etc.) adds to our store of memories and makes our lives richer. But this is assuming that having the most memories at the end is the goal of life. But your memories are also gone when you die. The only thing that remains after you die are memories in others' mind…

But your memories are also gone when you die.

Unprovable assumption, methinks. :-)

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#12

Post by john_b »

snikeris wrote: post #8

Time is an illusory phenomenon that arises due to memory.

You have completely missed the point.

Seneca cared about using one's time wisely in order to maximise the meaningful accomplishments and noble conduct of one's life. Whether time is illusory or real is irrelevant to his philosophy. One can only accomplish so much in life, and much of life is wasted because of poor choices of how to spend one's time. I've arguably wasted some of mine by writing this.

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#13

Post by ununun »

john_b wrote: post #12
snikeris wrote: post #8

Time is an illusory phenomenon that arises due to memory.

You have completely missed the point. Seneca cared about using one's time wisely in order to maximise the meaningful accomplishments and noble conduct of one's life. Whether time is illusory or real is irrelevant to his philosophy. One can only accomplish so much in life, and much of life is wasted because of poor choices of how to spend one's time. I've arguably wasted some of mine by writing this.

How do you define wisdom? What choices are wise and which ones aren't?

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#14

Post by NhanH »

whysonot wrote: post #2

Reminds me of the popular Steve Jobs quote about death and decision-making: > Remembering that I’ll be dead soon is the most important tool I’ve ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything—all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure—these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving what is truly important The Dalai Lama too: > Half of our…

It's interesting that the Dalai Lama stated "after twenty we begin to grow old" -- for the majority of us, that seems to be when life barely begins itself.

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#16

Post by bhrgunatha »

NhanH wrote: post #14
whysonot wrote: post #2

Reminds me of the popular Steve Jobs quote about death and decision-making: > Remembering that I’ll be dead soon is the most important tool I’ve ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything—all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure—these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving what is truly important The Dalai Lama too: > Half of our…

It's interesting that the Dalai Lama stated "after twenty we begin to grow old" -- for the majority of us, that seems to be when life barely begins itself.

Perhaps he's being more literal and he means (roughly) peak physical maturity. Although I've read different estimates - I seem to remember people mention somewhere in the 20s for when your body has completed it's full physical growth cycle.

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#17

Post by dredmorbius »

NhanH wrote: post #14
whysonot wrote: post #2

Reminds me of the popular Steve Jobs quote about death and decision-making: > Remembering that I’ll be dead soon is the most important tool I’ve ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything—all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure—these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving what is truly important The Dalai Lama too: > Half of our…

It's interesting that the Dalai Lama stated "after twenty we begin to grow old" -- for the majority of us, that seems to be when life barely begins itself.

I'd also argue that full intellectual maturity comes well after age 20. The intensity may be higher earlier on, but maturity, as I've witnessed it, seems to peak later (assuming it does develop at all).

(Edit to add): It's been known for a while that physiological maturity of the brain occurs after age 20:

"Adulthood: What the Brain Says About Maturity" http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/05/28/do-we-need-t...

Neuroscientists now know that brain maturation continues far later into development than had been believed previously. Significant changes in brain anatomy and activity are still taking place during young adulthood, especially in prefrontal regions that are important for planning ahead, anticipating the future consequences of one’s decisions, controlling impulses, and comparing risk and reward. Indeed, some brain regions and systems do not reach full maturity until the early or mid-20s.

"The Adolescent Brain -- Why Teenagers Think and Act Differently" http://www.edinformatics.com/news/teenage_brains.htm

A recent study by Lebel and Beaulieu (see below) reinforce the above findings that the human brain doesn't stop developing at adolescence, but continues well into our 20s.

My "if it develops at all" comment has more to do with theories of cognitive development -- higher levels of functioning are fairly rare. Jean Piaget's work is recommended:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maturity_(psychological)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piaget%27s_theory_of_Cogn...

My speculation that full intellectual maturity lags physiological mature is my own, I've no references on that.

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#18

Post by meric »

guelo wrote: post #9
snikeris wrote: post #8

Time is an illusory phenomenon that arises due to memory.

So that leads to, if we could inject memories we could live more than a lifetime's worth. Or maybe accessing others' memories via stories, (reading, movies, etc.) adds to our store of memories and makes our lives richer. But this is assuming that having the most memories at the end is the goal of life. But your memories are also gone when you die. The only thing that remains after you die are memories in others' mind…

I find I enjoy learning more than knowing. I would think voluntarily to become a like a child and learn again might be enjoyable. Your mind is a memory basket whose purpose is to experience life. Is it more useful at this purpose being full, or empty?

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#19

Post by Frondo »

Mz wrote: post #3

I rather like this line: You are arranging what lies in Fortune’s control, and abandoning what lies in yours. What are you looking at? To what goal are you straining? The whole future lies in uncertainty: live immediately. A lot of the rest seems like self-contradictory mumbo jumbo -- which may just mean that I don't understand it. But it both implores you to spend your time on that which is important and also dismis…

Elsewhere in Seneca's writing, it's a bit clearer what he means:

Pursue wisdom. Learn not just for learning's sake, but so that you can elevate mankind just a little higher by having lived.

Re: Seneca on the proper use of time

#20

Post by mikro2nd »

Aside from the obvious benefits of this perspective to bring clarity in deciding what you work on each day, each week, each hour, it also brings to me a strong sense of respect for other peoples' time.

I strive, for this very reason, to always be on time for meetings. If I say I'll see you at the coffee shop at 10:30, I'll be there at or before 10:30, barring any unanticipatable derailments. It doesn't pay to get obsessive about it, but such time consciousness fosters a respect for the other person's death. A good way to piss me off is to be persistently careless with meeting times; you're showing a marked disrespect for my time/death. And your own.

Being aware of death also helps me maintain quality, precision and focus when dealing with groups of people: I was always very aware of "other peoples' time" when addressing groups (sometimes large groups) of people in the forms of teaching and speaking at conferences. The awareness that, for each second of my time "spent", I am being granted the amazing gift of tens, hundreds or even thousands of seconds of everybody else's time. To me a humbling thought that always helped me get my own damn ego out of the way and focus on adding quality/value to the content of whatever I was trying to deliver.

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