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Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

cbc.ca

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Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#151

Post by hnnewguy »

PeterWhittaker wrote: post #66

Interesting. I don't have a password. And I defy you to unlock my phone. The question is "Can I be forced to unlock my own phone? Under what circumstances? Under what circumstances can I be charged for refusing to do so?" If you haven't already guessed, I use a complex swipe pattern, one that uses all nine points and cannot be determined from reading the grease streaks, at least not easily. I know this because I move…

>Can I be compelled to describe how to perform the swipe? To describe the pattern? To guide the agent?

Yes, yes and yes.

Until there is legal precedent, if they want into your phone and you don't provide them access, you'll be in trouble. Any "cleverness" regarding a security code will likely make it worse.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#152

Post by driverdan »

mattm wrote: post #73
nasalgoat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I brought out my phone to bring up an email showing the ebay ad for the car in question and at that point they asked me to hand over my phone. From now on, I'm backing it up and wiping it before I get to the border. Just on principle.

Unfortunately, the best policy when dealing with these people is "say and do as little as possible". Give one word answers and don't offer any other information that you're specifically asked for. Also, don't engage in any friendly conversation. I tried that before and would get hounded by questions whereas if I just answer "Yes", "no", "2 weeks", "travelling" then I get through much more quickly.

Normally I use that tactic but it's not always the best move. I got stopped entering Canada from the US. They checked my passport and knew I had felonies.

I told them a bunch of stories about my past (committing fraud, working for the Secret Service, etc) and they ate it up. They joked around with me the whole time and were very nice about not letting me in.

Of course I knew there was no downside to opening up because I figured out pretty quickly I wasn't going to be let in. I'd be much less open with a TSA agent who wanted to search my phone.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#154

Post by discreditable »

Magi604 wrote: post #139
Spearchucker wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this (reset and reformat to factory spec) with my phone and my laptop every time I cross a border. On the other side I download a TrueCrypt file which has everything (and only what) I need whilst abroad. I started doing this in 2010, after my phone got taken into another room for a half hour at Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv in 2010.

I've been wondering about how to do this. The problem I'm having is that I have a ton of widgets and custom settings on my phone (Android). If I were to wipe my phone before crossing a border, it would take quite a while to get it set up the way I like on the other side. I am just using stock android though. I wonder if there is a way to achieve what I want with a rooted phone.

You can completely backup most apps and your sdcard with adb on an unrooted phone [1]. The tricky ones are apps like Google Authenticator, which disable adb backups. You have to be patient and not use your phone for a while. It takes a long time. If you root, a nandroid backup is the way to go.

[1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-nexus/general/guide-p...

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#155

Post by allendoerfer »

thedufer wrote: post #130
allendoerfer wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was indeed referring to both Canada (because of this article) and the US (because of previously read articles) and therefore used your continents name in anticipation of comments like this.

The continent is North America. If you want North and South America, Americas is fine, but must be plural. You're being simultaneously pedantic and wrong.

Alright, lets do this. Wiki says you are pedantic and wrong while I am only pedantic.

> The Americas, or America, also known as the New World, are the combined continental landmasses of North America and South America …

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas

I love how strong you all feel about this. Just relax.

I am from Deutschland, but most people on the world call it either by a too general term Germania - and nobody in Denmark, Austria or the Netherlands is offended - or the too specific term Allemannia - and nobody in Switzerland is offended. In English you even use your own names for German cities (Cologne, Munich etc.) and the people there do not give a crap.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#157

Post by cpncrunch »

Karunamon wrote: post #128
cpncrunch wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a "bullshit excuse" if they do actually manage to catch many people by searching phones?

It's a bullshit excuse because "protecting the children" are items #1 and #2 on the list of "flimsy justifications for surveillance overreach", right next to "preventing terrorism" at #3. I'm serious. Any time you hear those terms and the discussion is not about speed limits in a school zone, red flags should be going up in your mind. It's not about how many people they catch - even if they had a 100% success rate at…

I was simply pointing out the reason for the searches. As it stands, the law currently lets them do these searches, and I was explaining the reasoning behind these searches (which should be pretty obvious to anyone who has watched those TV shows).

As for why they want to search for pedophiles at airports: the reason is presumably because there is a serious problem of child sex tourism in certain countries (Thailand for example).

You could use the same argument about guns or drugs -- why search people who they suspect are carrying guns or drugs? The reasoning is presumably that stopping these at the border prevents them from coming into the country.

To be honest I don't have a problem with being searched at airports. IMO the small inconvenience is outweighed by the benefit of putting the occasional pedophile in jail, preventing diseases from fruit/meat entering our country, and criminals bringing machine guns into the country, etc. I guess from the downvotes and comments that a lot of HN posters have a different opinion.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#158

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #128
cpncrunch wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a "bullshit excuse" if they do actually manage to catch many people by searching phones?

It's a bullshit excuse because "protecting the children" are items #1 and #2 on the list of "flimsy justifications for surveillance overreach", right next to "preventing terrorism" at #3. I'm serious. Any time you hear those terms and the discussion is not about speed limits in a school zone, red flags should be going up in your mind. It's not about how many people they catch - even if they had a 100% success rate at…

[deleted]

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#159

Post by tempestn »

tempestn wrote: post #140
Spearchucker wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this (reset and reformat to factory spec) with my phone and my laptop every time I cross a border. On the other side I download a TrueCrypt file which has everything (and only what) I need whilst abroad. I started doing this in 2010, after my phone got taken into another room for a half hour at Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv in 2010.

Do you use Android or iOS? I'd love to find a way to image and restore an Android phone, both for better backups and things like this.

To answer my own question, it looks like rooting and then using a custom recovery like ClockWorkMod or TWRP is the way to go for a true whole-system image.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#160

Post by Canada »

cpncrunch wrote: post #122
Canada wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bullshit excuse border guards give to search electronic storage.

Why is it a "bullshit excuse" if they do actually manage to catch many people by searching phones?

The fact of the matter is they don't. What they want to do is go fishing through your papers and they cynically use this catch all excuse when challenged.

In Canada it isn't legal to arbitrarily search people even at the border. Reasonable cause is necessary:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-52.6/page-64.html#...

There is both plenty of incentive and no consequences for conducting unlawful searches.

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