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Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

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141–150 of 224 posts

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#141

Does our world have even one country that is not awful but at least passable? (Preferrably one you can actually live in?) The shrinking life space makes me contemplate suicide.

Iceland and the Netherlands have pretty decent records on this sort of thing.

The Nordic countries in general are pretty good. The Netherlands is good as you point out. No place is perfect, but these are ok.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#142

There is no reason anyone should search a phone, because anyone smuggling "illegal data" can just transfer it directly over the internet undetected. This is horrible and ridiculous.

Unlocking my phone for border officials in 2013 when I arrived in Canada cost me about $300. They turned on cellular data when it was left in airplane mode so they could search through my emails.

I fly internationally on business and the Canadian border officials are the worst I've run across.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#143
post #10
post #7

The idea of nations and borders is one the time for has passed. I personally don't care what invisible, made-up lines you were born within or without. Do you?

This sounds more like a platitude than a thought I can actually agree or disagree with. What does it even mean? You want to abolish rule of law? You want everybody to be ruled by the Communist Party of China (now the Community Party of The World)? You just want everybody to behave the way you imagine people ought to behave in a utopia?

I agree, that statement is too vague, so I wouldn't comment on it, but for what it's worth I also have an opinion on that matter, so let me reply.

Personally, I don't want to be "ruled" by anybody and I don't really believe in "law". However, I don't assume possible to believe that people actually would be kind to each other and live in utopia: it is very likely that there will be somebody who will want to make use of other's unprotectedness, so the society will have to regulate it somehow. But the real problem is there is a lot of tasks to be done by the members of the society "together" (like building roads and stuff), and the most active/authoritative people in this society are practically the government, so there will be governments. And who has power, can abuse it. Therefore, it doesn't matter how much I dislike current governments: it is as it is, no use to talk about that.

However, it is relatively fair to want "not to be touched as long as you don't touch others". So I don't really care how those, who are "the government" will solve questions like who controls some territory: as long as there's no war between these countries and I'm not doing anything that was allowed in the first country, but not in the second one (like carrying a gun on the street) I'd like to never notice I actually "left country". Somehow it is possible in Europe (to certain degree: to the less degree that I can wish for, by the way, but nevertheless), but not between USA and Canada, who aren't fighting with each other, AFAIK.

Also, it is trendy to justify everything with some "dangerous aggressive nation out there, being terrorist menace for us". But as it happens, things usually have some reason to happen. And "aggressive nations" aren't that aggressive unless you abuse them somehow: say, by invading their country or at least drawing (without any real purpose: just because you can) obviously offensive pictures on public resources about people they love and respect.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#144
post #22

Here's the section of the law that he was charged under: False statements, evasion of duties 153. No person shall (b) to avoid compliance with this Act or the regulations, (i) destroy, alter, mutilate, secrete or dispose of records or books of account, (ii) make, or participate in, assent to or acquiesce in the making of, false or deceptive entries in records or books of account, or (iii) omit, or participate in, ass…

That seems to indicate that clearing your phone immediately prior to crossing the border would also be illegal.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#145

We should frame this story with what the actual end result of 'unlocking your phone' is when discussing it. The government routinely claims that it is no different than asking a traveler to open a physical briefcase. It is very different. If you're treating the phone as a 'good' as indicated in the quotes on this story, you can inspect my phone as a good. You can look at the phone. You can xray it. You can open up th…

This is why I don't carry a smart phone. I carry a shit, call and SMS only phone.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#146
post #95
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the best policy when dealing with these people is "say and do as little as possible". Give one word answers and don't offer any other information that you're specifically asked for. Also, don't engage in any friendly conversation. I tried that before and would get hounded by questions whereas if I just answer "Yes", "no", "2 weeks", "travelling" then I get through much more quickly.

Time again to remind people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc "Don't talk to Police"

While good overall advice, I understand that those protections do not cover you at the border. As an American entering the US, yes you just need to provide a customs declaration. As a non-US person, it's not clear what rights you have. They certainly don't need to permit you entry.

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#147
post #112
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many parts of the world had not formed into modern nations states 300 years ago. Surely there was the rule of law in many places without the current idea of nations. There is no a priori reason the current political organization of people is eternal, or even very durable.

By 'not durable', do you mean 'the concept stretches as far back as we have written records'? Yes, 'nations' meaning 'something that gives you a passport' haven't been around long, but 'nations' meaning 'geopolitical entities' is as old as record-keeping itself. And what do you mean by 'rule of law'? Do the decisions of tribal elders count? That doesn't suggest consistency, which is the spirit of the term.

>but 'nations' meaning 'geopolitical entities' is as old as record-keeping itself

This is completely untrue. States as we recognize them in the modern sense have only existed since the 17th Century in Europe[0], and much later in other parts of the world[1]. Before this time, political organizations consisted of kingdoms, principalities, city-states, tribes, and various other small groupings of people.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#148

Customs officials forcing you to unlock your phone is not just an invasion of privacy - it's a pointless invasion of privacy. Customs agents don't even know where to start in finding data that a user wants hidden. Even if allowed access to personal devices, data is slippery enough that it could be stored in almost anything. Here's yet another example of taking away rights in a way that does nothing to deter actual cr…

I had this experience. My laptop wasn't locked, but I was asked to let someone look through it. That took about 20 minutes, which caused me to miss my coincidence. Since I now had time to waste, I asked to see the customs lady's supervisor, and then berated the person who inspected my laptop for not having any idea how to do this sort of search properly. So, I ended up sitting both the customs lady and her supervisor…

Why didn't you refuse the search?

Re: Canadian Charged for Not Unlocking Smartphone at Canadian Border

#150
post #142

There is no reason anyone should search a phone, because anyone smuggling "illegal data" can just transfer it directly over the internet undetected. This is horrible and ridiculous.

Unlocking my phone for border officials in 2013 when I arrived in Canada cost me about $300. They turned on cellular data when it was left in airplane mode so they could search through my emails. I fly internationally on business and the Canadian border officials are the worst I've run across.

Why didn't you refuse the search?
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