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EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

wsj.com

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Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#41

Post by nightski »

scotu wrote: post #35
pilif wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally appreciate the impact which is why I said "this sucks right now". The thing is that publishers who continue their user-hostile practices can now be disrupted by more user-friendly publishers whose offerings will only be taxed at 5% VAT instead of the 20 plus % the user-hostile variant is charged for. We'll have to see whether publishers can keep this up or whether they have to fix their hostile attitude. I…

do you think non-DRM'd ebooks will be seen as goods? Being digital, I can lend it or resell it but I would still own a copy, so how can that be a good?

Wouldn't the "good" be the DRM free license and not the digital copy of the book itself? i.e. if you resell your license you would no longer have it.

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#43

Post by venomsnake »

Oletros wrote: post #39
venomsnake wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets say that a ruling that entitles consumers for the same right for digital book "services" as for physical would have been preferable.

The ruling doesn't say anything about rights, just the type of VAT to be applied

Yes. But ruling in the opposite direction could be used as precedent for vendors to loosen the DRM licence crap.

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#44

Post by digi_owl »

rikkus wrote: post #36
digi_owl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

This is somewhat relevant, yes, but I don't think anyone here is/was laughing. We can see the oncoming juggernaut, but there's little we can do about it.

I think many more were laughing back when it was originally published. Note that it dates back to 1997.

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#45

Post by zanny »

ralmidani wrote: post #32
tormeh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. Ebooks, unless sold in a DRM-free format with no restrictions on reselling, are services. Goods are a thing you own, can use for whatever purpose you want and can sell on after you've bought it. This way of looking at things present new questions: Should phones on a contract be regarded as services too?

>> Should phones on a contract be regarded as services too? Legally, you own your phone, even when on contract. Philosophically, the manufacturer and/or OS developer own most phones, even those not on contract.

A good number of Android phones are unlocked, or unlockable, and are rootable, and have custom ROM support. The only really bad parts are the proprietary GPUs and cellular radios.

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#47

Post by zanny »

rikkus wrote: post #36
digi_owl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

This is somewhat relevant, yes, but I don't think anyone here is/was laughing. We can see the oncoming juggernaut, but there's little we can do about it.

You can easily do something about it. Do not support the business model of holding information hostage, and support those that do not (ie, buy DRM free books, and even moreso completely free as in freedom books, to support the business model)

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#48

Post by simonh »

pilif wrote: post #16

While short term, this sucks, I also think that in the way that eBooks work these days, this ruling is actually fair and it might well fix the situation for us consumers in the mid- to longer term. For all intents and purposes, eBooks are services. Between DRM, vendor lock-in and other consumer hostile "features" of ebooks, seeing them as services and consequently taxing them as services totally makes sense. As an eb…

Looking at the ruling, it says nothing at all about lendability or copyability. Their point was that ebooks are not tangible goods. The ruling seems to apply equaly to ebooks with or without DRM.

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#49

Post by gknoy »

nightski wrote: post #41
scotu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you think non-DRM'd ebooks will be seen as goods? Being digital, I can lend it or resell it but I would still own a copy, so how can that be a good?

Wouldn't the "good" be the DRM free license and not the digital copy of the book itself? i.e. if you resell your license you would no longer have it.

I think it's really interesting to differentiate the license from the e-book -- rather than breaking the "e-book" category into two. Thanks for making me think about that in a different way.

Re: EU Court Rules E-Books Are Services, Not Goods

#50

Post by TeMPOraL »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #8
boo_radley wrote: post #5

Is it, strictly speaking, possible to pirate a service?

The product/service distinction is orthogonal to the relevant category in (U.S.) copyright law: the work. Only "works" can be copyrighted, but a work can be provided as part of a service, sold as a product, or one of any number of other possibilities. Nice try though. :)

> Nice try though. :)

Yesterday's XKCD immediately comes to mind.

http://xkcd.com/1494/

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