Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life • Hacker News Board

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#421

Post by DanBC » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

Torgo wrote: post #405

ceejayoz wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter isn't a professional setting like a conference session, and anyone joining in a game of CAH is deliberately opting-in to a situation where offensively funny combinations are the entire point of the game.

I know people disagree with me frequently on this, but most conferences aren't professional settings either. You register and you go, that's the criteria. And people do a lot of "unprofessional" things at and around them.

Code of conduct for 2013 US Pycon

https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/

> All communication should be appropriate for a professional audience including people of many different backgrounds. Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any conference venue, including talks.

> Be kind to others. Do not insult or put down other attendees. Behave professionally. Remember that harassment and sexist, racist, or exclusionary jokes are not appropriate for PyCon.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#422

Post by JibberMeTimbers » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

Cederfjard wrote: post #78

bluehex wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the joke even sexist at all or was it just sexual in nature? Inappropriate sure, but that's a pretty big difference in my book.

I'm not seeing any overt or implicit sexism either. Not even when she provides context, really: > She explained the background – how she was a “developer evangelist at a successful start-up” and that while the men had been giggling about big dongles the presenter on stage was talking about initiatives to bring more women into the industry. In fact, he’d just projected onto the screen a photograph of a little girl at…

One thing that confuses me is that series of events: 1)There was a speaker on the stage talking about women in the industry. 2)He happened to bring up an image of a girl in a tech shop. 3)Hank and his friend had several exchanges with the sexual jokes.

The timeframe doesn't seem right. For one, they were talking and giggling while someone was presenting? Is this a common thing? Another is that they were speaking louder than a whisper. Really? Making sexual jokes while someone is presenting in a louder than whisper volume? I don't know. It doesn't add up. Maybe they were really being that immature or your first quote is dramatized.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#423

Post by gadders » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

Seriously, what ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt?

Some people just don't feel fulfilled unless they can log at least 5 micro-agressions against them a day (whatever the fuck they are).

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#424

Post by kisil_reboot » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

johnsea wrote: post #252

outworlder wrote: post #39

I remember this episode well. Adria is more immature than the jokes that she supposedly got offended by. Let's ennumerate: - She overheard a conversation that wasn't directed at her. In the middle of a conference she was hopefully not coerced at attending and should be paying attention to the speaker - She took a picture of two people, without asking for permission - She twitted said picture with negative comments -…

> She took a picture of two people, without asking for permission - She twitted said picture with negative comments That's the main thing imo. One may not expose normal persons in such a public way without asking for consent. If I attend a conference I have the right to stay anonymous.

> If I attend a conference I have the right to stay anonymous.

Sadly, legally you have no such right. You are in a public space, and anyone can take your picture freely and do pretty much what they want with it. Our society doesn't even have coherent social norms about reasonable rights to privacy in public spaces, much less law.

I agree that it would be reasonable to expect some level of anonymity, though. Hopefully some day it will be.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#425

Post by rsanders » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #138

warkid wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there's anyone worse than Adria in this story, it's both Hank's and Adria's former employers. Worse? One (presumably) could've had a ruined business due to DDoS which could've led to much more layoffs than just one-I'm-very-sorry-for Adria. Hanks' employer could've had much more troubles than simply loosing money - by having a "black-jewish-feminist-hater" in his staff.

There's this concept of Dane Geld, popularly known also as "not negotiating with terrorists". If you show that you're willing to bow down to a random DDoS attack and fire someone as ransom, it only validates this method of action against you.

I think you might have that concept backwards. Danegeld was payment to "terrorists" presumably arrived at through the pragmatic notion that paying for protection was better than being dead.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#426

Post by iolothebard » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

edent wrote: post #124

adekok wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes on: > “Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’” > “Have you ever heard that thing, men are afraid that women will laugh at them and women are afraid that men will kill them?” she said. Remind me when someone was last killed at a tech conference like she says? Very rarely, if ever. Did she feel bad about him being fired? Nope. > “He’s a white male. I’m a black Jewish female. He wa…

> Remind me when someone was last killed at a tech conference like she says? Very rarely, if ever. I don't know of any killings, but there have been a number of (high profile) sexual assaults at tech conferences - see http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents My friends say it's a regular (and sometimes terrifying) occurrence at some conferences. And I believe them.

You think that's terrifying, you should see college campuses!

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#427

Post by TuringTest » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #378

skywhopper wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You talk to a woman on an elevator... and > everyone assumes you're a sexual predator > because penis. A woman's fear of unwanted sexual advances, assault, or rape from an unknown male when she's in a vulnerable position is entirely reasonable. Many women receive unwelcome sexual advances on a regular basis. Most men have basically no point of personal reference for this fear, but we should try to be aware of how t…

Replace "men" and "women" with "blacks" and "whites". Is it reasonable for white people to feel a need for caution talking to black people in an elevator?

If they're using racial slurs in their conversation, yes, it is. It entirely depends on the topic being adequate for the venue or not, not on the races or genders of the participants.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#428

Post by gadders » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

Original Hacker News thread, including response from Mr Hank:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#429

Post by altcognito » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

Jem wrote: post #122

altcognito wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Handling it personally makes a lot of sense. I have children, I don't teach them to immediately run to authority the minute they are offended. You should be able to confront/request somebody behave appropriately without them "giving back a mouthful of abuse". And therein lies the key, if they give you back a mouthful of abuse, then take it higher up. There are absolutely situations where going directly to conf organi…

I also have children, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Of course you SHOULD be able to tell someone you're offended without the risk of backlash, but it's always a risk. Clearly Adria decided to handle that risk in a different way than you or I would have.

It's relevant because talking directly to people and not tattle-telling is part of growing up, and it's unfortunate this wasn't done.

It doesn't mean she isn't grown up though as this is just one non-representative tiny slice of two people's entire lives. Honestly, I didn't get a chance to update my message, but another question (seen here and elsewhere) is probably more important: "Why isn't the story about her life being threatened over this?" That's the more ridiculous part of this story.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#430

Post by eropple » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

rsanders wrote: post #419

eropple wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't agree with Adria's actions, this is simply nonsensical. The most prejudiced person I know honestly feels as though she is intending no harm when she says that miscegenation should be illegal. It's still her problem that she's a galloping racist and hurting other people.

She could say that all humans should be forcibly rendered sterile before puberty and it still wouldn't be hurting anybody. It's a terrible idea, of course, and I don't much care for it.

That's not true. Creating a hostile environment and perpetuating attitudes that lead to prejudiced action is hurting people. The words you say tug towards the culture you want, and when that culture's thing is hurting the weak, you're responsible for it.