Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life • Hacker News Board

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#411

Post by joshstrange » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

byuu wrote: post #366

joshstrange wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why you should never use your real name with your online identity in any wa While I agree with most of your post I don't agree with this statement. In my opinion hiding behind a username not tied to your real identity is nothing more than a stopgap, eventually someone will link "byuu" with who you really are or more likely you will make a slip up and expose yourself. DPR did everything he could to conceal his ident…

> DPR did everything he could to conceal his identity while running SR and he still screwed up. DPR screwed up by running the largest drug trafficking system in the world. I make software to play old video games. While I'd love to flatter myself into thinking I were that important, I doubt I'm going to get the force of the entire US government trying to link my identity over my perfectly legal online actions. But yes…

> DPR screwed up by running the largest drug trafficking system in the world.

Agreed and I understand that it was the government that linked his identities I think that while they may currently be the only one's able to do that today I don't trust that they anyone won't be able to do that in a few years time. Look at how old/bad/cracked encryption can be decrypted in hours on even your parent's desktop computer and how things thought secure just years ago can be cracked with supercomputers or cloud computing today.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#412

Post by RexRollman » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

adekok wrote: post #63

andrea_s wrote: post #29

““Maybe it was [Hank] who started all of this,” Adria told me in the cafe at San Francisco Airport. “No one would have known he got fired until he complained. Maybe he’s to blame for complaining that he got fired. Maybe he secretly seeded the hate groups. Right?” This paragraph really gave me chills... A lot of insight about her thought process, and a bit terrifying in my opinion.

It goes on: > “Danger,” she said. “Clearly my body was telling me, ‘You are unsafe.’” > “Have you ever heard that thing, men are afraid that women will laugh at them and women are afraid that men will kill them?” she said. Remind me when someone was last killed at a tech conference like she says? Very rarely, if ever. Did she feel bad about him being fired? Nope. > “He’s a white male. I’m a black Jewish female. He wa…

She reminds me of those idiots on Tumblr who constantly utter the phrase trigger warnings.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#413

Post by interpol_p » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

mercurial wrote: post #348

interpol_p wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is where we differ. I do not believe her explanations. Not when she tweets the same kind of joke herself. I think that brings up a very good point. You can make these jokes when you feel safe. Hank felt safe at PyCon, it was easy for him to joke right there in earshot of many like-minded people. Adria felt safe tweeting such a joke from her own computer. Adria did not feel safe at PyCon. This should be a huge…

> Adria did not feel safe at PyCon. This should be a huge problem for us. I don't know what to think of her explanations, which may or may not be sincere, and may or may not have been made up after the fact. Lack of non-white males in the tech industry is definitely a larger issue than this individual case. > I don't think Adria is very focused on these guys, and for a lot of people that comes off as hatred or a lack…

> Judging from her "I wouldn't make jokes if I had kids" comment

That comment really hit me too when I first read it. Because I have kids and I would make jokes like that. I thought it was insensitive.

But then I tried to see things from her point of view and maybe I wouldn't feel so bad about Hank. He got a new job quickly, he didn't get death threats.

And maybe she doesn't have kids, so she's just spouting off some opinion about how you should behave as a parent without really knowing. But so what? Why should we be so angry about this and vilify her?

I think much of the anger directed at Adria in this thread is irrational — our feelings are telling us to make this a big deal when it isn't, the problem is elsewhere.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

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Post by ryan-c » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

zamalek wrote: post #329

interpol_p wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a lack of empathy. It feels like anger at a system that caters to men in a field she very much enjoys and wants to be included in. Unfortunately Hank happens to be a fairly good guy who is defended by this system and oblivious to it. He's an unintended casualty of her anger at something bigger. I had many of the same reactions as you when I read her words. But I've been trying very hard to imagine…

> I don't agree with Adria's public tweet Turning around and asking them to stop would have been enough. If they didn't (by shrugging her off, or laughing at her request, or whatever) that would have been grounds to publicly shame them. It doesn't matter who got off easier or worse. There could be a million reasons why Adria didn't get another job: the male-dominated industry is one. Here's a personal challenge, whic…

"registered sex offender" is pretty meaningless without context - in some states getting caught peeing in a bush after a night of drinking in college can result in that label.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#415

Post by jethroc » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

Jem wrote: post #219

byuu wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that I can never directly relate to being a female. All I can do is think about things logically. If she truly had this kind of response to an innocuous joke, I think that says more about her own insecurities than about the behavior of Hank. Feeling danger in response to a bad joke in a crowded room is not a reasonable response to have. It's grossly over-proportionate. How far should we go to cater towar…

This reminds me of when I go out running at night. I avoid running near men (particularly groups of men) because of a fear that I'll come to harm: specifically rape. It's irrational, and unreasonable, but it's the reaction I have nonetheless. (This is common, FYI, many women feel like this.) I don't expect other people to cater towards my fear, but acknowledging that it's real and that it happens is important. Ridicu…

As a white nerdy male, there is an analog that I feel similar to your running scenario. I grew up in the suburbs, more of a sheltered upbringing due to the makeup of the neighborhood. For many years, when I'd be walking downtown, if I saw a group of people that looked like they were from a typical rap video (not specifically any race, but more the group's clothing and body language, although race does play a part of it), I'd turn down another corner. This is mostly due to what got fed to me by TV and other sources, and the knowledge that a nerdy white guy is probably the most hated vulnerable person in that area at that time. Now I know that this is totally irrational, and it wasn't until I forced myself to not turn a different corner each time, that I started to get over it.

Now on another level, I'm a very bashful person, so I have a hard time looking at people in the eyes when I talk to them. Therefore my eyes are pointed at a 30 - 60 degree angle downward towards the floor. And guess what is in that line of site if I happen to be talking to a woman at work? So I learned to just stare straight ahead, or start messing with my phone, whenever a female coworker passes me in the hall. Just to avoid giving the impression that I'm looking her up and down, due to my natural instinct to avoid eye contact by shifting my gaze downward towards the floor after seeing someone make eye contact with me (which, as mentioned, can be taken the wrong way, and land me in HR).

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#416

Post by camdroid » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

gregd wrote: post #290

byuu wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> jokes that make me feel threatened I really don't see how hearing two guys in a crowd of 800+ people talk about big dongles would make one feel threatened enough for a comment like, "Have you ever heard that thing, men are afraid that women will laugh at them and women are afraid that men will kill them?" She feared for her life over tasteless toilet humor in a crowded conference? Bullshit. Her Victorian sensibilit…

Let’s put ourselves into a position where we can be compassionate. As a woman in the tech industry and because of the utter lack of diversity, it is safe to assume that from the get go, attending conferences like this could be staggeringly intimidating. Viewing it from this perspective outlines how easily one could be hypersensitive to comments, looks, smiles because you’re already going into it with that perspective…

I'm truly sorry that she lost her job (as well as for her history - no one should have to go through that), but "hypersensitivity" doesn't really jive well with "Cards Against Humanity" and "public penis jokes."

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

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Post by dkfmn » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

davelnewton wrote: post #189

I'm pretty conflicted about this whole thing, and was back then, too. I try to be supportive of anybody, and generally go out of my way to be inclusive. I also make really stupid, juvenile jokes, although I am audience-aware. In this case, his audience was the guy he was sitting next to, and there was nothing overtly threatening in the joke. In fact, if anything, it'd indicate he was gay and not at all interested in…

Thank you for posting this article, I was trying to track it down for the thread. This encounter was so widely reported that it's almost difficult to discuss it honestly and openly and without taking sides. I feel like that, in and of itself, is the tragedy for the community.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

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Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

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Post by rsanders » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #330

obitoo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubbish. If someone feels some way about something I say when I never intended any harm to them by it then its entirely their problem. Her comparison with the schoolyard bully is moot, because there presumably would have been intent towards her in that case.

While I don't agree with Adria's actions, this is simply nonsensical. The most prejudiced person I know honestly feels as though she is intending no harm when she says that miscegenation should be illegal. It's still her problem that she's a galloping racist and hurting other people.

She could say that all humans should be forcibly rendered sterile before puberty and it still wouldn't be hurting anybody. It's a terrible idea, of course, and I don't much care for it.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

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Post by gregd » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #373

throwaway283719 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation is different because there isn't a 2000+ year history of Java developers discriminating against Lisp developers.

If, howewer, there was such a history, would me making fuss over the situation in the story above make my behaviour justified? The point is, there is always a minority to be found and a member of such can always find a reason to feel offended - but this by itself does not justify being aggressive. I used a clearly absurd example to separate the issues from sexual themes, because those get people emotional and irratio…

I don't think anybody is saying that being in a minority is justification for being aggressive. I think what some people are saying is that being oppressed might be a justification for being aggressive, but I can't say for certain. I'm just an average Asian who appears like an average Caucasian.