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Google seems to have broken email forwarding

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21–30 of 193 posts

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#21
post #7

Google has always had issues with legitimate e-mail the spambox, but then again, I have yet to see a spam filter with no false positives. Google just errors a lot more on the side of classifying email as spam compared to most email services (more false positives, but less spam in the inbox). What makes this even more annoying is that they hide the spam folder so that users don't even know that it exists anymore. I al…

>so more false positives, but less spam in the inbox

This is a pretty strong understatement. The spam filter in gmail is incredibly aggressive. My secondary email is a gmail account and anytime I have a registration email from a service or anything with a couple URLs in it, it goes straight to spam. Meanwhile, the product we use at work is tons smarter, but gives the occasional spam into the inbox.

I guess someone at google decided that people seem happier when there's no spam in their inbox. People seem to drop 20 IQ points when they see spam. They either instantly rage about it or send the email to the helpdesk demanding an explanation on how someone dared email them something they weren't interested in. Its a bizarre behavior. Yet, when they're forced to fish through a spam folder or an anti-spam web interface, they seem to mind that less. Which is bizarre as its tons more work.

I think the guys at gmail realized this and just erred on the side of caution by giving people as much as a clean inbox as they can handle. Even if they don't like it, who are they going to complain to? Google? Who at google gives two shits and even if someone did, how could your reach them, and if you did who has the power to change policy? Meanwhile if you run mail servers, you get complaints about how your email goes into spam, even when you have all your DNS ducks in a row and have a good reputation. When you tell gmail users to talk to google about it, they scoff and tell you to piss off.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#22
post #20
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already downvoted below zero (about 2 seconds). I'll stand by what I said/implied: it is hard to co-exist with Google systems (and apparently also with pro-Google shills/apologists). I know this post violates HN standards, but I didn't think the parent did.

Personally speaking I downvoted your comment because I often downvote things that smack of conspiracy thinking - never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. Another issue I have with your argument - I don't believe Gmail has the market share to make such a fiendish strategy viable.

I said it could be an accident in the original post.

And try doing business with small businesses and then tell me what market share you perceive GMail as having.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#24
post #5

Obviously good email (deep in a conversation) being declared "spam" has been a problem with my business for some time also. I figure Google takes all email in a 2 step process (either intentional or accidental) 1: get a good fraction of the world on GMail 2: intermittently declare any non GMail mail spam ( greatly lowering the utility of non GMail). This isn't about any mass mailings or even mailing lists. This is ab…

For some reason, gmail classifies nearly all of the transactional email I get from Amazon (order acknowledgements, shipping notifications, etc) as spam, and no matter how many I catch and un-mark, it won't stop.

Spam classification is a hard problem, but I don't think they've put the false-positive/false-negative tradeoff in the right place, and they really need some safety valves like offering to whitelist an address when you un-mark it as spam.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#25
post #7

Google has always had issues with legitimate e-mail the spambox, but then again, I have yet to see a spam filter with no false positives. Google just errors a lot more on the side of classifying email as spam compared to most email services (more false positives, but less spam in the inbox). What makes this even more annoying is that they hide the spam folder so that users don't even know that it exists anymore. I al…

I don't know that I've ever had a false negative (spam in my inbox) in my gmail, and I've had it for just over 7 years now. I also don't know that I've ever had a false positive, but I tend to not check my spam folder very often so it's possible I've missed things.

Maybe I'm just an outlier, but I'm perfectly content with my gmail.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#26
post #7

Google has always had issues with legitimate e-mail the spambox, but then again, I have yet to see a spam filter with no false positives. Google just errors a lot more on the side of classifying email as spam compared to most email services (more false positives, but less spam in the inbox). What makes this even more annoying is that they hide the spam folder so that users don't even know that it exists anymore. I al…

I wouldn't have such a problem with its false positive rate if they at least learned from them better.

It doesn't seem to matter how many times I mark an email as "Not Spam". The next day an email from the same sender from the same server with the same Received: path will land right back in Spam again.

I realize that gmail can't immediately globally unblock based on "Not Spam" reports (otherwise spammers would ruin things by marking their own bulk mail) but could they at least apply them to my mailbox?

I guess adding the senders to my address book would help, but it seems like a silly thing to have to do. I already told it that a message is "Not spam", can't it take it from there?

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#27
post #23
post #14

>What do I have to do to make Google stop fucking me? Stop using it. You already have your own email server.

No, you would have to make everybody else stop using it.

In this case, only his employees. Because this is the issue, not general deliverability.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#28
post #5

Obviously good email (deep in a conversation) being declared "spam" has been a problem with my business for some time also. I figure Google takes all email in a 2 step process (either intentional or accidental) 1: get a good fraction of the world on GMail 2: intermittently declare any non GMail mail spam ( greatly lowering the utility of non GMail). This isn't about any mass mailings or even mailing lists. This is ab…

This seems more like a bug than something intentional. What I find more interesting (and am somewhat saddened by) is that a bug such as this causes people to leap to the conclusion that it is part of a malicious, anti-competitive plot.

Re: Google seems to have broken email forwarding

#29
post #5

Obviously good email (deep in a conversation) being declared "spam" has been a problem with my business for some time also. I figure Google takes all email in a 2 step process (either intentional or accidental) 1: get a good fraction of the world on GMail 2: intermittently declare any non GMail mail spam ( greatly lowering the utility of non GMail). This isn't about any mass mailings or even mailing lists. This is ab…

For some reason, gmail classifies nearly all of the transactional email I get from Amazon (order acknowledgements, shipping notifications, etc) as spam, and no matter how many I catch and un-mark, it won't stop. Spam classification is a hard problem, but I don't think they've put the false-positive/false-negative tradeoff in the right place, and they really need some safety valves like offering to whitelist an addres…

Amazon mail works fine for me.

But there is a white list, if you add the sender to your contact list it is white listed.

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