Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life • Hacker News Board

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#31

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:27 PM UTC

arrrg wrote: post #20

Jem wrote: post #10

I remember when this incident happened. I can't remember what my reaction was at the time (probably a combination of "let's not alienate women in tech further" and "sexual jokes are OK in the right context, and a conf is propably not it") but reading this excerpt - particularly reading about Adria's continued anger(?) at Hank - really shocked me.

She lost her job and faced the usual (sadly) torrent of internet abuse. I really dare you to be cool then … I mean, the gall of some people. That’s so fucking weird. In my view no one should have been fired here and that’s that. We are facing a huge problem. Abuse and harassment run rampant and I bet that’s one of the reasons why some women are very, very sensitive to some things. That’s the problem to solve here.

[deleted]

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#32

Post by adekok » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:29 PM UTC

moomin wrote: post #11

Let's be clear here, Jon Ronson spent a fair bit of time lying to Adria Richards to put together his book, his portrayal of the timeline is inaccurate and even if this wasn't the case it'd be a phenomenal amount of false equivalence: http://www.shakesville.com/2015/02/the-falsest-of-false-equi... TL;DR; Yeah he got fired, but he didn't get fired because of an internet backlash.

Except nothing in that page gives any facts about why he was fired. The author claims:

> A man was fired for violating the conduct rules in a professional space.

Which is naked supposition on her part.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#33

Post by celticninja » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:30 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #14

codecondo wrote: post #3

Say what you like, but Hank didn't do anything wrong here. In fact, he only expressed everything that had happened to him, and it just so happened that many people decided to stand up for him in what seems to be a situation of very, very poor judgement. On the other hand, great and naturally flowing writing by the author, really enjoyed swimming through the story!

The problem was that many people went a lot further than standing up for Hank. (I thought her reaction was wrong, pretty much from the first step, but it wasn't something uninvolved people needed to pay much attention to either.)

But that was not Hank's fault or Hank's problem in all fairness.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#34

Post by Jedd » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:30 PM UTC

One of the saddest stories in tech in the past few years.

Everyone lost. Nothing was gained.

As a white male I was implicitly guilty, but wasn't sure how to stop being so.

The sock / penis joke (broadcast to 9000+ people) was hard to get past, given the 1/9000th sized unintentional audience of the repo / dongle joke. Neither was especially funny, and it's hard to remember a time in my distant past that I may have found either particularly droll. Maybe the low bar for contemporary comedy is what I find most disappointing.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#35

Post by celticninja » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:30 PM UTC

treerock wrote: post #28

moomin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to sympathize with anyone when you're reading someone perform a character assassination on them.

What character assassination?

i agree, seems like the author has quoted her truthfully and she assasinates her own character.

give someone enough rope...

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#36

Post by throwawayaway » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:30 PM UTC

moomin wrote: post #11

Let's be clear here, Jon Ronson spent a fair bit of time lying to Adria Richards to put together his book, his portrayal of the timeline is inaccurate and even if this wasn't the case it'd be a phenomenal amount of false equivalence: http://www.shakesville.com/2015/02/the-falsest-of-false-equi... TL;DR; Yeah he got fired, but he didn't get fired because of an internet backlash.

That's anything but clear. Could you clarify what lies Ronson told and also point out the inaccuracies in the timeline.

There's plenty of inaccuracies in your link, for example: I'm not sure how forking a guys repo is sexist, that seems to be (an understandable) context based misunderstanding rather than a fact.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#37

Post by Jem » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:31 PM UTC

arrrg wrote: post #20

Jem wrote: post #10

I remember when this incident happened. I can't remember what my reaction was at the time (probably a combination of "let's not alienate women in tech further" and "sexual jokes are OK in the right context, and a conf is propably not it") but reading this excerpt - particularly reading about Adria's continued anger(?) at Hank - really shocked me.

She lost her job and faced the usual (sadly) torrent of internet abuse. I really dare you to be cool then … I mean, the gall of some people. That’s so fucking weird. In my view no one should have been fired here and that’s that. We are facing a huge problem. Abuse and harassment run rampant and I bet that’s one of the reasons why some women are very, very sensitive to some things. That’s the problem to solve here.

When I was ~17, I was cast out of an online community that I had been working in/with for around 3-4 years. Overnight I lost my hobby, my so-called friends, and my entire personal life was examined in detail and revealed to the public for mocking/the enjoyment of the perpetrators.

Anyway, the scope of the backlash was not the same as it would be these days (because of the availability of Internet access for one) but my entire life was turned upside down for several years. I had to go into virtual hiding for a while. I'm 29 and I still feel shame thinking about it, even though I'm not entirely sure what it was I did "wrong".

So, I think that I have a tiny smidgen of an idea of what it's like (maybe?) and I still don't get Adria's anger.

I totally agree with you otherwise.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#38

Post by coob » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:31 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #26

MatekCopatek wrote: post #4

I remember when this story happened and after reading it all again, I still think that what makes it so terrible is the fact both sides were fired. One of them because he was behaving immaturely at a conference and another because her employer was getting ddosed. Is it just me or are those both terrible overreactions from the companies' sides? The whole sexism discussion is perfectly valid and very important, we need…

> Is it just me or are those both terrible overreactions from the companies' sides? No it's not just you, the responses from the companies were, as far as I'm concerned, illegal; the guy was fired for something he said (freedom of speech?), and she was fired through 4chan blackmailing her employer (as far as I could tell). Of course, I don't know what kind of employee protection people have; IIRC the IT business isn'…

Freedom of speech only apply to the state. The state cannot restrict your freedom of speech. Your employer can.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#39

Post by outworlder » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:31 PM UTC

I remember this episode well.

Adria is more immature than the jokes that she supposedly got offended by.

Let's ennumerate:

- She overheard a conversation that wasn't directed at her. In the middle of a conference she was hopefully not coerced at attending and should be paying attention to the speaker - She took a picture of two people, without asking for permission - She twitted said picture with negative comments - She followed up(!) the tweet with a blog post - She called one of the guy's employers (!!!)

And that interview, my god. I really have nothing good to say about it.

The reactions afterwards from supporters of both sides aren't an example of maturity either. But that's what you get when you invoke an angry mob to do a job that could be handled in a civil manner.

Re: Jon Ronson: How a Tweet Can Ruin Your Life

#40

Post by masklinn » Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 12:31 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #26

MatekCopatek wrote: post #4

I remember when this story happened and after reading it all again, I still think that what makes it so terrible is the fact both sides were fired. One of them because he was behaving immaturely at a conference and another because her employer was getting ddosed. Is it just me or are those both terrible overreactions from the companies' sides? The whole sexism discussion is perfectly valid and very important, we need…

> Is it just me or are those both terrible overreactions from the companies' sides? No it's not just you, the responses from the companies were, as far as I'm concerned, illegal; the guy was fired for something he said (freedom of speech?), and she was fired through 4chan blackmailing her employer (as far as I could tell). Of course, I don't know what kind of employee protection people have; IIRC the IT business isn'…

> Of course, I don't know what kind of employee protection people have

It's the US, and it's tech. So "none whatsoever" is about right.