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Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

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31–40 of 105 posts

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#31
So Cuban is essentially complaining that the market for small time ipos is dead. Maybe he is right, I do not know.

But I am very much against any attempts to lessen the reporting requirements for IPOs. What people complaining about the SEC have to understand is that if the public lose trust in the markets, we will have absolutely no markets whatsoever. There will be no market for small caps or for big caps of for IPOs of any sizes. And we came perilously close to that with some of the big accounting scandals.

The most important thing about the markets is that the public trusts them. If that creates accounting requirements that are too onerous for some small time ipos, so be it. Because if there is no trust, there are no markets and there won't be any small time ipos anyways.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#32
post #26
post #2

"All those widows and orphans" Spare me. What are the numbers on those widows and orphans? Because the thing is, tech investment right now is driven by investors and funds—entities that by definition should be able to handle their losses. Entities that by definition are more educated about the downside risk than the tons of John Q Public idiots that were day trading Internet stocks back in 2000. Maybe the numbers sup…

You are absolutely right. I don't know what widows and orphans he is talking about, but it is very unlikely that anyone of the people pushing hundreds of millions of dollars into start-ups today has any problem affording repairs on their cars. He is making up a victim here.

...

it's an expression, not a literal statement.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#33
The current heat in the startup market is largely due to the Fed pumping money into the economy by setting interest rates so low that large institutions can borrow nearly for free.

While most of that money is going into less risky things like firms who are expanding rather than contracting thanks to the supply of capital, lax regulatory landscape, etc.

The extra employment and associated consumer spending, along with the optimism obtained from a large number of people feeling like "owners" thanks to crowdfunding programs, helps create a culture of ideas and optimism.

And of course if you're rich enough you want to have some money in some highly leveraged, risky bets, and so VCs and LPs are refining that market substantially, helping money flow into it efficiently. Mattermark is an example of serious analytics to help with deal flow that is growing in number of deals far out of proportion to the total dollar amount.

Similarly, "financification" is happening in areas of real estate that have previously been slower markets driven by insider knowledge and minimal transparency.

Financification is actually the broader trend. Companies like Mattermark realize that and are applying it to what they know (startups) but it's also being done at Farmlogs, Reonomy, and many, many others.

Such businesses are pro-cyclical in that they lose value if deal flow slows, not to mention the inevitable liquidity assumptions that underly all such predictive analytics.

I think that the financial instruments needed to truly make these things work medium term are obscure or even banned, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#34

> Broadcast.com, AOL, Netscape, etc. Today its, Uber, Twitter, Facebook Even mentioning his company in the same breath as Uber, Twitter and Facebook shows how out of touch he is IMO. Broadcast.com was hardly a business! Those companies have BILLIONS of dollars of real revenue.

[deleted]

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#35

I think Cuban is wrong. It's WORSE when ordinary investors are risking their money. Today, you've got angels and VCs that have risked their money. And this is money they don't need. Big deal if everything implodes, what do they lose? Simply their bets. Back in 2000s, a lot of ordinary people lost money they couldn't afford to lose.

Yep, Cuban glosses over that obvious detail when it comes to median net worth individuals ($50k - $100k).

Like when ordinary people invest into the stock market, and buy a company like Adept Technologies (ADEP) that goes from $21 to $6 in ten months (ADEP has been publicly traded for 20 years).

Or buy into a company like Dendreon (DNDN) which goes from $40 / share and a ~$10 billion market cap, to literally worthless in 36 months.

A person with $1,000 can easily lose all of it in the public markets. There's nothing stopping them from drowning in their own ignorance.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#36

Heaven forbid you read the comments section before the actual article. His point: >The bubble today comes from private investors who are investing in apps and small tech companies. ... >Why ? Because there is ZERO liquidity for any of those investments. None. Zero. Zip. Is he wrong?

Yes he is wrong. This is a non-sequitur. He is offering a conclusion that does not follow from his argument. Why should the lack of liquidity cause a bubble? Usually lack of liquidity acts in the opposite direction. It causes prices to go down not up.

Furthermore, the bubble dynamic usually requires liquidity. The bubble dynamic happens when prices are going up so much that participants do not care about an underlying valuation but are certain they will be able to sell in the near future for a higher price due to the market momentum. This whole way of thinking, requires liquidity.

If there is indeed a bubble, I do not see how it can logically be caused by lack of liquidity.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#37
So Cuban started (what became) Broadcast.com, ramped it up to $13.5 Million revenue per quarter [1], and sold it to Yahoo for $5.7 billion (in stock, but we'll disregard that fact for now). On track to do $54 million in a year, means he sold for 1,000x one year's revenue.

15 years later, Facebook brings in $3.2 Billion in revenue and has a market cap of ~$41 Billion, or about 12.8 times one year's revenue. [2]

And we won't mention Google, despite the fact that they're the most obvious tech company to compare the likes of AOL to, because they make more money than God, and it would harm the argument. Uber, Twitter, etc. may be overvalued, but they bring in cold hard cash, and they're barely getting started.

Things are frothy right now, for sure; there are some really high rounds being raised that are justified by portfolio theory, and some no-product seed rounds at really high valuations. There will be some major catastrophes, and people will lose a lot of money.

But I have no idea how Cuban could possibly make the argument that it's worse than 1999.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban#Business_career [2] http://ycharts.com/companies/FB/market_cap

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#38

> Broadcast.com, AOL, Netscape, etc. Today its, Uber, Twitter, Facebook Even mentioning his company in the same breath as Uber, Twitter and Facebook shows how out of touch he is IMO. Broadcast.com was hardly a business! Those companies have BILLIONS of dollars of real revenue.

You're cherry picking the quote: > In a bubble there is always someone with a “great” idea pitching an investor the dream of a billion dollar payout with a comparison to an existing success story. In the tech bubble it was Broadcast.com, AOL, Netscape, etc. Today its, Uber, Twitter, Facebook, etc. In context, what he's saying makes a lot of sense.

Broadcast.com is only sort of comparable to WhatsApp (in terms of roles in a bubble).

And WhatsApp was all set to be the primary social network for a billion people, not yet another video site.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#39
post #32
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right. I don't know what widows and orphans he is talking about, but it is very unlikely that anyone of the people pushing hundreds of millions of dollars into start-ups today has any problem affording repairs on their cars. He is making up a victim here.

... it's an expression, not a literal statement.

Yes, it is an expression usually used to refer to relatively poor innocent people. This does not apply here, poor people are not getting into the private funding rounds of top tier start-ups. So even if you use the expression figuratively, he is still making up a victim.

Re: Why This Tech Bubble is Worse Than the Tech Bubble of 2000

#40

"In the tech bubble it was Broadcast.com, AOL, Netscape, etc. Today its, Uber, Twitter, Facebook, etc." Did he just compare himself to Uber and Facebook? Wow...

no you are taking it out of context. Read :

In a bubble there is always someone with a “great” idea pitching an investor the dream of a billion dollar payout with a comparison to an existing success story. In the tech bubble it was Broadcast.com, AOL, Netscape, etc. Today its, Uber, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

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