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How We Learned to Kill

nytimes.com

151–154 of 154 posts

Re: How We Learned to Kill

#151
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some research shows that we live in an unusually non-violent time period. "Violence has been in decline over long stretches of time", says Harvard professor Steven Pinker, "and we may be living in the most peaceful time in our species' existence" There are a bunch of nice graphs showing this here: http://ourworldindata.org/VisualHistoryOf/Violence.html#/tit...

If that's true, I'd mark the start date for such a period at the end of the Cultural Revolution. List of conflicts with over 1 million deaths: 1850-1864 Taiping Rebellion: 20 million deaths. 1914-1918 World War 1: 37 million deaths. 1917-1922 Russian Civil war: 9 million deaths. 1928-1936 Chinese Civil War: 2 million deaths 1937-1945 Second Sino-Japanese War: ~25 million deaths. 1939-1945 World War 2: 60 million deat…

Your 54 year period since 1971 would account for Japan's lost decade of productivity.

Though I suspect an arithmetic error.

Re: How We Learned to Kill

#152

I want to ask Timothy Kudo if there was anything else he knew about the men digging by the side of the road that indicated to him that they were planting a bomb. Because if not, he's just a murderer. By the description in that article, he did not have nearly enough information to decide that those men should die. America was founded on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty". Timothy Kudo was acting as judge…

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is generally not used in warfare. This isn't an American thing; it's long been part of the customary / traditional rules governing lawful conflict. To provide an easy to understand example why; you would not have to have a legal proceeding to determine that someone wearing a grey uniform with an iron cross on it was in fact a German soldier during WWI. Visual recognition,…

> The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is generally not used in warfare. This isn't an American thing; it's long been part of the customary / traditional rules governing lawful conflict.

You don't get to just stop doing the right thing because a war started. Customs/traditions aren't an excuse for murder.

> To provide an easy to understand example why; you would not have to have a legal proceeding to determine that someone wearing a grey uniform with an iron cross on it was in fact a German soldier during WWI. Visual recognition, even from a distance (of the kind that would cause serious cross-examination in a domestic court), is sufficient to make the call that he is an enemy combatant.

Surely you can see how this is much clearer than people digging next to a road.

> It is worth noting that this Marine officer was acting under not just US rules of engagement, but also NATO ROEs. Those ROEs would have been vetted by the lawyers of all the NATO members, who already abide by some of the most historically rigorous applications of the laws of war.

And Nazis were "just taking orders". What's your point? Just because the authorities say it's okay to murder someone doesn't mean it's okay to murder someone.

> Regardless of whether you personally think that was moral or not, the fact is that it was legally permissible under internationally agreed upon laws of warfare.

And it shouldn't be.

Your defense of Kudo's actions is basically: "Law made by Western powers says that what Western powers do is okay, so it's okay!" Fuck that noise. This is just murder.

If you're killing someone, you'd better have a damn good reason, and you'd better be damn sure you're right. Kudo wasn't, but he killed those men anyway.

Re: How We Learned to Kill

#153
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are certainly living in the most peaceful period since the start of the 20th century. For example, look what was happening exactly 100 years ago today: http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/firstworldwar/index... When was the last time there was a battle with thousands of causalities anywhere on earth? War hasn't gone away, but it has definitely declined. Surely it would be better if it were gone completely, bu…

When was the last time there was a battle with thousands of causalities anywhere on earth? 2400 killed, 600 wounded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah

Which occurred over roughly two months. Literally millions of soldiers died over the same time span in the world wars, nevermind civilians. That's just in the last century, and it's not even in the same ballpark.

Re: How We Learned to Kill

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a newbie, this isn't my first account. In the spirit of civility you might want to spell out why it's not a good idea to "try and piss-off a Marine" instead of resorting to implying things. I'm also quite sure that the Marines can speak for themselves. I'm being fairly civil, I don't appreciate people telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Especially when they in their previous statements have r…

> In the spirit of civility you might want to spell out why it's not a good idea to "try and piss-off a Marine" instead of resorting to implying things. He is probably cautioning you against antagonizing Marines, because we'll resort to telling jokes about the Army, and quoting Eleanor Roosevelt. Nobody wants that. > Especially when they in their previous statements have recognized their own bias... Hmm, who to trust…

"cautioning you against antagonizing Marines, because we'll resort to telling jokes about the Army"

Something like that, just make sure you don't mention your Mum, sister or phobias - SemperFi @woodman

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