What happened to all the non-programmers? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#71

Post by raldi » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:41 PM UTC

ripb wrote: post #28

frausto wrote: post #8

I feel this problem is especially significant in San Francisco. Having lived in several other cities, I can say that, at least for me, this was never a major issue before living in SF. Meeting other programmers and people in tech out in the real world used to be a pleasant surprise. Now it's just a given. Coffee shops, climbing gyms, museum nights, hiking meet ups, hanging out in the park, etc etc... I, like apparent…

Well SF is clearly saturated with people working in the tech industry. As we're seeing more and more on HN, there's a huge amount of people in the tech industry who are in it for reasons that do not include a passion for technology, writing code or developing things. So you've a huge amount of people fairly dissatisfied with what they're doing 40+ hours a week, in an area full of similar people, and who have the disp…

> Well SF is clearly saturated with people working in the tech industry.

It sounds like you didn't read the article. (Ctrl-F "It turns out")

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#72

Post by randomdata » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:42 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #52

billrobertson42 wrote: post #14

A person who looks around at the people he's socializing with, then apparently immediately grabs a computer, downloads a statistical data set and begins to analyze it in R wonders why he's surrounded by other programmers?

Exactly. As ridiculous as it sounds, that's an act worthy of ostracism in the small town where my wife grew up (and I lived for a while). Living in a small town and working (remotely) in tech was an eye-opening experience. There wasn't another programmer within 100 miles. I learned that not only had I previously surrounded myself with a very homogenous group, but that the way I think and act most of the time simply i…

Interestingly, I also work remotely from a rural farming area and have found that the farming community is a lot like the tech community. They, like you, love the future and technology. Robotics is huge in agriculture right now. Tractors that drive themselves, cows that can milk themselves, how software can be used to improve the bottom line, etc. are hot topics, and come up frequently among my farming friends. In my eyes, if there is any competition, it isn't who has the biggest truck, it is who makes the most effective use of modern technology.

In addition to being a developer, I also farm. Maybe I have a different perspective than you by being able to speak their language? It makes a big difference, in my opinion. I also enjoy being around programmers for the same reason. I find you can get into much deeper discussions more quickly when you have a shared background.

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#73

Post by duncanawoods » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:45 PM UTC

ripb wrote: post #35

jey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we distinguish between the "working class" and the "professional class", with programmers falling into the latter group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class#The_prof...

In the UK it's basically if you work for wages and/or in low skilled or manual labour.

@mattnewport

Wages vs. salaried worker i.e. being paid weekly, possibly cash in hand for hours worked vs. a regular fixed monthly bank payment based on an annual salary.

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#74

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:49 PM UTC

cafard wrote: post #4

"In fact, just the fact that I’m interested in doing sports for leisure is associated with class, since it’s not something that would be so easy for, say, manual laborers or shift workers." This statement says a lot about his bubble. Most of the adults I see playing soccer in the Washington, DC, area are most likely working in construction or service trades. Softball can be pretty blue collar, depending on where you…

[deleted]

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#75

Post by simoncion » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:56 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #72

austenallred wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. As ridiculous as it sounds, that's an act worthy of ostracism in the small town where my wife grew up (and I lived for a while). Living in a small town and working (remotely) in tech was an eye-opening experience. There wasn't another programmer within 100 miles. I learned that not only had I previously surrounded myself with a very homogenous group, but that the way I think and act most of the time simply i…

Interestingly, I also work remotely from a rural farming area and have found that the farming community is a lot like the tech community. They, like you, love the future and technology. Robotics is huge in agriculture right now. Tractors that drive themselves, cows that can milk themselves, how software can be used to improve the bottom line, etc. are hot topics, and come up frequently among my farming friends. In my…

It's possible that austenallred can't relate well to farmers. It's also possible that he's like me in that he lived in a small town that had very few (or no) farmers.

I've lived in The Sticks, surrounded by farmers.[0] I've also lived in small towns that contain no more than a couple of farmers. I'm not claiming that every small town lacks farmers, but I do know that some of them do.

[0] It's hard to say that you're surrounded by people when your second-closest neighbor is a ten minute drive away, but that's the nature of back-country.

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#76

Post by ripb » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:57 PM UTC

mattnewport wrote: post #68

ripb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it's basically if you work for wages and/or in low skilled or manual labour.

Working for wages is not enough to qualify: doctor, university professor, airline pilot, solicitor... All traditionally firmly middle class professions despite working for a living.

Wages vs salary

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#77

Post by randomdata » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:57 PM UTC

simoncion wrote: post #75

randomdata wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I also work remotely from a rural farming area and have found that the farming community is a lot like the tech community. They, like you, love the future and technology. Robotics is huge in agriculture right now. Tractors that drive themselves, cows that can milk themselves, how software can be used to improve the bottom line, etc. are hot topics, and come up frequently among my farming friends. In my…

It's possible that austenallred can't relate well to farmers. It's also possible that he's like me in that he lived in a small town that had very few (or no) farmers. I've lived in The Sticks, surrounded by farmers.[0] I've also lived in small towns that contain no more than a couple of farmers. I'm not claiming that every small town lacks farmers, but I do know that some of them do. [0] It's hard to say that you're…

austenallred stated it was a farming community, but you are right that not all small communities are farming communities.

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#78

Post by mason240 » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 7:59 PM UTC

Dewie wrote: post #60

mason240 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By far the biggest thing that surprised me after entering into the CS field 3 years ago is that being a programming just like a white collar version of being an electrician or plummer. Looking at the from the outside it seems like a career with a lot more power there really is.

"Just". What is "just" about being an electrician? Is it less than being a more conventional white collar worker, like some kind of administrator or manager?

I meant "just like," not "just" in the sense you mean.

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#79

Post by mkr-hn » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 8:00 PM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #43

>Find someone that’s not using a Mac/iOS device and strike up a conversation. This is good advice if you're looking to meet people with different perspectives.

It would be the opposite for me. Everyone around me uses Windows and Android. The people with a different perspective are the ones with an Apple logo.

Re: What happened to all the non-programmers?

#80

Post by austenallred » Wed, Mar 04, 2015, 8:00 PM UTC

simoncion wrote: post #75

randomdata wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I also work remotely from a rural farming area and have found that the farming community is a lot like the tech community. They, like you, love the future and technology. Robotics is huge in agriculture right now. Tractors that drive themselves, cows that can milk themselves, how software can be used to improve the bottom line, etc. are hot topics, and come up frequently among my farming friends. In my…

It's possible that austenallred can't relate well to farmers. It's also possible that he's like me in that he lived in a small town that had very few (or no) farmers. I've lived in The Sticks, surrounded by farmers.[0] I've also lived in small towns that contain no more than a couple of farmers. I'm not claiming that every small town lacks farmers, but I do know that some of them do. [0] It's hard to say that you're…

It was definitely a farming community; almost the entire town either farmed alfalfa for the biggest farm in town (my father-in-law's, incidentally), or had very small dairy farms. You either had a very small farm/ranch, herded sheep, or were a "sprinkler boy." It was/is definitely on the "dying" side of the innovation curve, though somehow those types hold on seemingly indefinitely on almost nothing (which I certainly respect). Certainly no robotics, no one would even know what "software" is. A couple people had iPads; they called them "machines."

I guess not all small towns are identical :)