GASP ... another politician gaming the system.
Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
111–120 of 166 posts
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#112Hilary Clinton's not the first nor only politician guilty of doing this, NY Daily News just put together five other notables: - Sarah Palin - Mitt Romney - Karl Rove - Andrew Cuomo - Chris Christie aide Bridget Anne Kelly http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/5-examples-lawmaker... It definitely seems less than ideal for these rules to be abused like this. The problem is, how do you stop it? It's unreasonable to e…
Well, the specific law referenced here is a federal law which only applies to high ranking federal officials (e.g. Cabinet secretaries). It would apply to Clinton, but not to most of the people on your list. "The head of each Federal agency shall make and preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the age…
> The only relevant question is, "are emails 'records'?"
I don't know, I see other relevant questions. For instance, nothing in the quoted law says anything about how they shall "make and preserve" the records, only what purposes those records must be adequate to serve. So, using private email alone doesn't seem to be a violation, it seems to be something that might be the starting point for an inquiry as to whether she made and preserved "ontaining adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency and designed to furnish the information necessary to protect the legal and financial rights of the Government and of persons directly affected by the agency’s activities", but it doesn't alone provide an answer to that question whether or not you consider emails as records.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the specific law referenced here is a federal law which only applies to high ranking federal officials (e.g. Cabinet secretaries). It would apply to Clinton, but not to most of the people on your list. "The head of each Federal agency shall make and preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the age…
Palin used her yahoo account for state business. She did violate state law. I'm not familiar with the others, but the issue isn't so cut and dry.
Why exactly would Clinton go to the trouble to set up a mail server? Did state.gov run out of email addresses? Given the Clinton history of obfuscation and secrecy, Clinton's intent was far from innocent. She went out of her way to do this. The question is why? Pointing a finger at Palin is silly. Palin didn't hire some mystery person to hide Cabinet level communicatiins from public scrutiny. Palin wouldn't be smart enough to have that sort of intent. The Clinton apologists are beyond help. Clinton could shoot a puppy on live TV at while at a Papal audience and someone would sputter that Palin once hunted moose. Remember this is the same Hillary Clinton that said she came under sniper fire during a Balkans visit. Brian Williams was crucified for the exact same chicanery and Hillary is being seriously considered as presidential material? The double standard is astounding. Brian Williams can't read the news but Hillary can run the country? Is half of America just brainwashed? Does the entire Democratic party have not a single trustworthy candidate that Clinton is the default? Even Elizabeth Warren lied about her being a Native American. Is there anyone else? I can deal with honest policy disagreements between Republicans and Democrats, but I can't abide politicians like Clinton that have made a career from deception. I am certainly no Obama fan, but I am glad he beat Hillary. She's pathological. America can do much better. We can dump all of the Karl Rove Republicans and the Clintonistas and our government would be a much better place. I have no use for the lot of them.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a good argument for changing the law. However, it is not a defense against Clinton breaking the current law. The President and other executive branch members can claim executive privilege which is the actual legal defense you describe. Clinton did not claim executive privilege. She set up a secret email account in order to avoid disclosure laws. This criminal and corrupt action should disqualify her for presid…
Let me guess, you're a Republican / Libertarian.
I don't have to guess - you avoided the topic entirely to make an attack post.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#115Hilary Clinton's not the first nor only politician guilty of doing this, NY Daily News just put together five other notables: - Sarah Palin - Mitt Romney - Karl Rove - Andrew Cuomo - Chris Christie aide Bridget Anne Kelly http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/5-examples-lawmaker... It definitely seems less than ideal for these rules to be abused like this. The problem is, how do you stop it? It's unreasonable to e…
I work in a .gov and have had exposure to this issue directly in a few different contexts. The advocates for full disclosure imo are biting their nose to spite their face. Normal people running everything from little leagues to major corporations use email for strategy development, information delivery, deliberative functions and other normal business processes. Known figures in government cannot do that, because the…
The quip about everything being available to the news is not accurate. These are the sorts of records - only for official communications, mind you - that are only meant to come out years later (similar to classified docs) or in the case of legal action.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#116How is this supposed to be a scandal exactly? The issue seems to be that she could of hid something in her personal emails by not turning everything over. But couldn't any official have just used their gov email for "official business" and use their personal email for stuff they want to hide? Doesn't every politician actually do this? The fact that Clinton is letting personal correspondence mix with government corres…
How is this supposed to be a scandal exactly?
Refusing to use the email server that is under your employer's control is a giant red flag. Document retention, document deletion, FOIA requests, a zillion other compliance requirements: those all need to be handled by a dedicated compliance officer, not a Clinton aide.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#117Hilary Clinton's not the first nor only politician guilty of doing this, NY Daily News just put together five other notables: - Sarah Palin - Mitt Romney - Karl Rove - Andrew Cuomo - Chris Christie aide Bridget Anne Kelly http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/5-examples-lawmaker... It definitely seems less than ideal for these rules to be abused like this. The problem is, how do you stop it? It's unreasonable to e…
I work in a .gov and have had exposure to this issue directly in a few different contexts. The advocates for full disclosure imo are biting their nose to spite their face. Normal people running everything from little leagues to major corporations use email for strategy development, information delivery, deliberative functions and other normal business processes. Known figures in government cannot do that, because the…
Okay, you're out of your mind.
I also work for an organization where FOIA laws mean anything I produce is available to anyone who asks (and knows what to ask for). The purpose of laws like this is to prevent your elected and/or unelected officials from doing things that are detrimental to society. Those "couriers... grey area communications mechanism, or... something else that is lost to the public record"? Yeah, you're fucked if someone can figure out how to request those, because they're subject to the same laws, and it sure looks like you're trying to hide something.
Leaders cannot lead if they're working against the public interest. If they're not working against the public interest, then they can justify why they're doing what they do. Period.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#118This is an unusually political post to have risen so high on Hacker News. Is that because of the significance of email to the story? The use of email in this case is not very technically interesting. Or is there some other attraction?
The HN discussion is useful because the news media accounts skip all the tech detail. For example, what provider was used, and what are their security procedures?
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's unreasonable to expect all private communications to be on public record, and if you write a note to your babysitter during office hours, why should the wider world have to know about it? >It's a difficult balance. No it's not, and you know it. If you're discussing job-related matters, use your work email, not the system you had set up so that you could evade your workplace data-retention policies. Who knows; m…
In any other workplace, this would be called data leakage. This is why many companies use web filtering software to block other email providers.
Which is why employees should not use corporate resources (equipment, networks, time) to conduct personal business/affairs.
Re: Using Private Email, Hillary Clinton Thwarted Record Requests
#120How is this supposed to be a scandal exactly? The issue seems to be that she could of hid something in her personal emails by not turning everything over. But couldn't any official have just used their gov email for "official business" and use their personal email for stuff they want to hide? Doesn't every politician actually do this? The fact that Clinton is letting personal correspondence mix with government corres…
This is payback for 2 things
- The exposure of Palin's email shenanigans
- A continuation of the Benghazi conspiracy
They want to keep Benghazi on the radar in case of a potential presidential run, and they're still mad about how easy it was to shatter Palin as a VP candidate, a mistake that is widely believed to have cost them the presidency and locked the U.S. in for 8 years of centrist non-ideologue successes that just happened to be accomplished by a half-black man with an informed global view.