“Just remove the duck” (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#91

Post by happyscrappy » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:23 PM UTC

NickPollard wrote: post #34

mvdwoord wrote: post #8

A story from the time recounts that Piero Soderino, the head of the powerful Florentine Republic, even told the famously irascible Michelangelo that David's nose was much too large. Michelangelo then hid some marble dust in his hand, climbed back up his ladder and pretended to do some more "chiseling" on the offending proboscis. While he did so, he let some marble dust fall from his hand. The pompous Soderino was foo…

Another version I've heard of this is with film censorship - apparently when Hitchcock made Psycho , the film censor (I think in the UK - the BBFC) wouldn't give the film a certificate because it was too extreme for the era - too much nudity, too much violence - and suggested a few cuts to just trim back some of the offending shots. Hitchock said of course he would, took the film back, and sat on it for a couple of w…

This works for submissions to the App Store as well.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#92

Post by korethr » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #57

mattdlondon wrote: post #52

It is called bikeshedding. People have been using "bike sheds" in software development for years to get project managers off their back about the important stuff.

No, bikeshedding is something completely different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality This is about how some managers feel they have to suggest a change, any change, to justify their position. Bike shedding is excessive discussion in committees/group emails about trivial matters because everyone feels they understand the issue, unlike more complex issues up for discussion.

Correct, but a similar cause underlies both. From PHK's email on bikes-heds, "somebody will seize the chance to show that he is doing his job, that he is paying attention, that he is here."

The project manager needs to show that's he's here and actually doing things, and so decrees changes like getting rid of the duck or changing the color of the buttons from taupe to mauve. In bikeshedding, all the people commenting need to prove that they're there and contributing, so now everyone is suggesting color changes. It seems to me that the main difference is the number of people involved.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#93

Post by tonyedgecombe » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

I'm sure I've been on the receiving end of this from the guy who does my graphics work. I mostly find it amusing but a it is bit annoying when there is a deadline. I won't let on that I know though.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#94

Post by mdekkers » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #24

This is virtually the same as what is more often called "bikeshedding", though with a different (just as famous) story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_trivialit...

no, it isn't bikeshedding at all.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#95

Post by john_butts » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

This is the origin story of Richard Stabone (RIP) also. Originally named to be used as a sacrificial bargaining chip with the standards board, he was somehow never cut, leaving Kirk Cameron stuck with a Boner for four years.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#96

Post by mattdlondon » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

korethr wrote: post #92

mattmanser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, bikeshedding is something completely different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality This is about how some managers feel they have to suggest a change, any change, to justify their position. Bike shedding is excessive discussion in committees/group emails about trivial matters because everyone feels they understand the issue, unlike more complex issues up for discussion.

Correct, but a similar cause underlies both. From PHK's email on bikes-heds, "somebody will seize the chance to show that he is doing his job, that he is paying attention, that he is here ." The project manager needs to show that's he's here and actually doing things, and so decrees changes like getting rid of the duck or changing the color of the buttons from taupe to mauve. In bikeshedding, all the people commentin…

Yep - you offer up a sacrificial bikeshed/duck for management to meddle with, whilst the important stuff is left alone. Could be one person or a committee/group - its the same thing.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#97

Post by dasboth » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:34 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #10

agumonkey wrote: post #3

Similarly, always give options, subtly worse than the one you want to see picked. See Dan Ariely's books.

Bernard Woolley: What if he demands options? Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, it's obvious, Bernard. The Foreign Office will happily present him with three options, two of which are, on close inspection, exactly the same. Sir Richard Wharton: Plus a third which is totally unacceptable. Sir Humphrey Appleby: Like bombing Warsaw or invading France. Yes, Minister - A Victory For Democracy

Wish I could upvote this twice, "Yes, Minister" is full of stuff like this.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#98

Post by Eric_WVGG » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:35 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #84

I've always thought the "just remove the duck" story was a condemnation of the artist, not the manager. If your work is so crappy that you know you have to add something even crappier to distract the reviewer, what does that say about your competence? Maybe I'm just jaded from years of reviewing awful code. But if someone put an obvious compiler error into their code in hopes that it would distract me and keep me fro…

Rough judgement. But given how clunky and janky that animation is, even by the standards of its day (oh yes I was gaming when Battlechess came out), I think in this case you’re right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM3InfEH-cU

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#99

Post by loudmax » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

We, as engineers, should also resist the temptation to leave our own mark when we're reviewing products designed by others. I don't work in management, but I've been in review meetings and I have made suggestions that worked their way into the final product. I like to think that my own suggestions were helpful, but it is gratifying to see one's own suggestion implemented. The temptation to leave one's mark just for its own sake is something we should all be aware of.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#100

Post by ph0rque » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

mvdwoord wrote: post #8

A story from the time recounts that Piero Soderino, the head of the powerful Florentine Republic, even told the famously irascible Michelangelo that David's nose was much too large. Michelangelo then hid some marble dust in his hand, climbed back up his ladder and pretended to do some more "chiseling" on the offending proboscis. While he did so, he let some marble dust fall from his hand. The pompous Soderino was foo…

This is something I admit to doing while driving with my kids at times, when they ask to e.g. turn the volume of music up/down and I think it's just fine the way it is. I'll turn it down a few clicks, then turn it up to what it was before.