If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible? • Hacker News Board

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#161

Post by koolkelso » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 3:18 AM UTC

amalcon wrote: post #102

ianferrel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as they either don't open the envelope until just before the presentation, I'm pretty sure they fit within the rules of the competition.

Presumably they didn't line up the deal just before the presentation; presumably that was done in advance. Look at it this way: if you can do things like that, you could just as easily form a "company" and spend the whole assignment period accumulating liquid but non-monetary assets in whatever manner you see fit. Then, at the last minute, open the envelope and buy the company from yourselves with the $5. Liquidate t…

What if it was counted because the teacher thought making the deal was where they made the money, not in the classroom. They made their money in the 2 hours, but delivered their service afterwards, which doesn't contradict her guideline.

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#162

Post by bhousel » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 3:25 AM UTC

seldo wrote: post #73

proee wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I understand what you're saying here, but you're over-thinking the problem (like an engineer). The point of the exercise was to get the students excited about entrepreneurialism. The real world (read Wall Street) has plenty of constraints and people are always gaming the system to make a buck. So in this sense, it's a valid exercise. Edit: In terms of "gaming the system" I'd like to think of this as leveraging o…

Yes, because the lesson I really want people who are thinking of working on Wall Street to learn is that they should be trying to cheat the system.

Do you really think it's reasonable to compare Wall Street to these lemonade-stand kinds of business school assignments?

I'm starting to think there should be a "Godwin's Law" corollary -- as any discussion thread grows, the probability of comparisons to Wall Street approaches 1.

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#163

Post by herval » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 3:31 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #135

raganwald wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally, you're not rewarding creativity at money-making, you're rewarding creativity at rule-breaking. And there's your insight. If what you want is money, and lots of it, finding creative ways to game the system is how it's done. I am not lauding that, just pointing it out.

Maybe on Wall Street, but elsewhere you make a lot of money by creating something people really want, but not generally what they wanted.

elsewhere you make money by making people want things, not trying to predict what they want. People usually don't know what they want anyway...

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#164

Post by gnaritas » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 4:18 AM UTC

bhousel wrote: post #159

gnaritas wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But anyway, as long as it's not illegal, I don't see what the problem is. It's thinking like that that makes most people not like Wall Street and businessmen in general. Legal and illegal and right and wrong and not the same thing. Being ethical doesn't just mean following the law, it means following the spirit of the law and not doing things other would perceive as wrong, regardless of the law. It's wrong to cut i…

That's true, and I totally agree with you. I guess my comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was that I don't see what the problem is for the purposes of the assignment . Obviously the rules for doing business on Wall Street, where decisions can impact millions of people, and the rules for this business class assignment are going to be different.

The problem for the purpose of the assignment, is you shouldn't be teaching such bad behavior. If you reward people for behaving badly, they'll do it again. A great teacher would give assignments that paralleled the real world and encouraged behavior that would be both ethical and beneficial in the real world, because to a student, it is not obvious that the rules would be different in the real world.

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#165

Post by raffi » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 4:31 AM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #77

thenduks wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the synopsis. I'm curious, though, what makes the solutions 'immoral' or dishonest? They seem perfectly legitimate to me.

There are two levels --- the first is within the context of a class assignment, and the second is as a business operation. 1) The bike tire pressure check isn't bad, but seems to be cheating on the class solution by using outside materials. Once one can 'presume' a pressure gauge and a pump, why not presume further specialized equipment or further outside funding? As a business proposition I was happy with it when th…

I once heard one of the participants from the first season of the Apprentice speak. One of the assignments her team was given was to take a business taxiing people about via bicycle and make it as profitable as possible.

Most the teams decided to jump on the idea of selling advertising. Her team had the insight to realize they weren't just selling advertising on a taxi-bike but they were selling advertising on a national television show. Needless to say they won that round. This is what the third team sounds like to me. Legitimate.

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#166

Post by anonjon » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 4:37 AM UTC

aplusbi wrote: post #133

jasonlbaptiste wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually oranges and extremely cold winters heavily impact businesses. Jamba juice 2 years ago stopped carrying fresh squeezed OJ and smoothies with orange juice in them were 25 cents more.

I was making an obscure movie reference.* *Trading Places

that's hardly an obscure reference.*

*or is it

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#167

Post by amalcon » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 5:27 AM UTC

koolkelso wrote: post #161

amalcon wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they didn't line up the deal just before the presentation; presumably that was done in advance. Look at it this way: if you can do things like that, you could just as easily form a "company" and spend the whole assignment period accumulating liquid but non-monetary assets in whatever manner you see fit. Then, at the last minute, open the envelope and buy the company from yourselves with the $5. Liquidate t…

What if it was counted because the teacher thought making the deal was where they made the money, not in the classroom. They made their money in the 2 hours, but delivered their service afterwards, which doesn't contradict her guideline.

So, the income can be counted before obligations are resolved? Tradesmen can "earn" large amounts of money in short periods of time under this definition, as they're often paid half up-front to fund materials, but they still need to do work in order to "earn" that money.

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#168

Post by dpcan » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 6:24 AM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #46

zackattack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone just spoil it please? I hate having to waste my time in order to glean insights. Pareto.

She teaches a class at Stanford and offers each team $5 of 'funding' in an envelope. She tells them that once they open the envelope, they have 2 hours to make as much money as they can. She cites three teams' approaches: 1) First team opens a free stand that offers to check peoples bike tire pressure for free, then charges $1 to inflate if necessary. This team changes midstream to accepting donations instead of char…

I think you really missed the point. It has nothing to do with ethics, and everything to do with creativity.

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#169

Post by dpcan » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 6:41 AM UTC

I am now thinking about every "problem" in my life, its borders, and whether those borders mean ANYTHING. Is everything this artificial?

Re: If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as much money as possible?

#170

Post by a-priori » Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 9:38 AM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #150

mechanical_fish wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My simple view would be that if the restaurant would change their system if you told them what you plan to do, it is immoral. Well, that moral principle is not going to generalize well. But let's resist the urge to play moral philosopher and consider the facts: Would the restaurants want to stop you from doing this? I don't think it's obvious. If I pick up half a dozen extra reservations and then try to sell them, I…

There's no genius in this, it's just plain dishonest, and if any restaurant knew you were making fake reservations and then selling them they'd put a stop to it. That you don't think this is obvious blows my mind, and forces me to think you're a dishonest person in general. I can't fathom an honest person not immediately seeing this as wrong.

Okay, first of all, you should apologise to mechanical_fish. Ad hominem attacks are not cool.

I agree it's a bit shady to sell reservations, and I would be uncomfortable to play any role in this (person in line, person buying, student selling, or restaurant employee), but how is it "dishonest"? That implies deception, and I see none.

Selling reservations definitely violates the egalitarian "first-come, first-served" nature of the restaurant queue. If I were a restaurant owner, I wouldn't let it happen out of fairness to the people in the queue who don't want to pay. Both choices send strong signals, certainly, but I think that's a choice on the restaurant's part.