Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#131

Post by sutro » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 10:16 AM UTC

abrowne wrote: post #37

jrochkind1 wrote: post #28

I would love to try a firefox OS phone. Verizon seems like an odd choice in the U.S., to me they seem like a 'premium' brand somewhat more expensive than their competitors, while Firefox OS, at least prior to know, seems to have been positioning itself as a budget option.

Verizon has the best coverage in rural areas, at least where people I know live: southeast Minnesota, western Wisconsin, and Iowa. Many of my (and my friends') relatives in these areas still use flip phones or have reluctantly upgraded to iPhones or Android. Verizon is wise to have an option that's not a smartphone and not total junk. I just upgraded my ZTE Open C to FxOS 3.0. This phone is similar, but worse, in spe…

Any tips or links you can share for getting your Open C to FxOS 3.0? Did you have to first upgrade the base image from JellyBean to KitKat? Were you able to shallow flash a nightly image or did you have to build everything yourself? I have an Open C and am on 2.1, but haven't yet tried to move past that. Thanks!

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#132

Post by smcl » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 10:45 AM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #7

SwellJoe wrote: post #2

I'm unreasonably excited about Firefox OS. Android really isn't open enough for my taste, and my trust of Google has diminished over the years, as they've encroached on more and more of the web and my data on that web. Apple has always been awful for the open web. And I'd rather write JavaScript and HTML than Java.

Android's open enough for me, but what I find unhappy is that Google seems intent on tricking people into revealing more and more information. It often reminds me to turn on history tracking, despite having said no many times. Every time I use the Play store, it tries to get me to enter a phone number. The way it does this is by popping up a dialog, with no buttons except continue . It makes it look like you MUST do…

That Microsoft were paying anybody cash to stuff their app store was sufficient to make your point. There's no need to bring prejudices against "3rd world countries" into this.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#133

Post by blueskin_ » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 11:04 AM UTC

I can't see how this would go well. Chrome OS has been a big flop, and pushing that onto phones is just going to pile more disadvantages on top of that.

The everything-as-a-website concept is fatally flawed anyway, as while it is often possible to find a single-purpose site to do a specific thing such as converting file formats, you're completely at the mercy of an unknown third party and their privacy policy (as well as promise not to tamper with your file) if you do. It's a privacy disaster waiting to happen. That, and javascript is a horrible and inefficient language not fit for purpose even years ago, so certainly not on devices with weak CPUs and limited battery.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#134

Post by blueskin_ » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 11:05 AM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #7

SwellJoe wrote: post #2

I'm unreasonably excited about Firefox OS. Android really isn't open enough for my taste, and my trust of Google has diminished over the years, as they've encroached on more and more of the web and my data on that web. Apple has always been awful for the open web. And I'd rather write JavaScript and HTML than Java.

Android's open enough for me, but what I find unhappy is that Google seems intent on tricking people into revealing more and more information. It often reminds me to turn on history tracking, despite having said no many times. Every time I use the Play store, it tries to get me to enter a phone number. The way it does this is by popping up a dialog, with no buttons except continue . It makes it look like you MUST do…

>And of course, the idiotic permissions system. Want to check to see if a user's on the phone? Gotta also get access to who they call and their IMEI and other permanent identifiers.

Use XPrivacy. It should be mandatory for anyone who uses a phone and has a clue about privacy.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#135

Post by blueskin_ » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 11:07 AM UTC

smcl wrote: post #132

MichaelGG wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android's open enough for me, but what I find unhappy is that Google seems intent on tricking people into revealing more and more information. It often reminds me to turn on history tracking, despite having said no many times. Every time I use the Play store, it tries to get me to enter a phone number. The way it does this is by popping up a dialog, with no buttons except continue . It makes it look like you MUST do…

That Microsoft were paying anybody cash to stuff their app store was sufficient to make your point. There's no need to bring prejudices against "3rd world countries" into this.

Nice scare quotes. Sorry to break it to you, but it's a well known and accepted term which does not invalidate an argument by its use.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#136

Post by tome » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 11:28 AM UTC

blueskin_ wrote: post #134

MichaelGG wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android's open enough for me, but what I find unhappy is that Google seems intent on tricking people into revealing more and more information. It often reminds me to turn on history tracking, despite having said no many times. Every time I use the Play store, it tries to get me to enter a phone number. The way it does this is by popping up a dialog, with no buttons except continue . It makes it look like you MUST do…

>And of course, the idiotic permissions system. Want to check to see if a user's on the phone? Gotta also get access to who they call and their IMEI and other permanent identifiers. Use XPrivacy. It should be mandatory for anyone who uses a phone and has a clue about privacy.

What is XPrivacy?

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#137

Post by blueskin_ » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 11:39 AM UTC

tome wrote: post #136

blueskin_ wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And of course, the idiotic permissions system. Want to check to see if a user's on the phone? Gotta also get access to who they call and their IMEI and other permanent identifiers. Use XPrivacy. It should be mandatory for anyone who uses a phone and has a clue about privacy.

What is XPrivacy?

http://repo.xposed.info/module/biz.bokhorst.xprivacy

It filters permission requests so when an app tries to use one, it gives you a popup with allow/deny temporarily/permanently options, so if an app wants to access something it shouldn't (location, contacts, device ID, etc.), you can feed it empty/fake data transparently to it.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#138

Post by z3t4 » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 12:07 PM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #90

z3t4 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the point of JS that you do not need an SDK!? If I need to use something else then notepad to write a program for FFOS - that would be a big turn-off.

I think you're mistaking a SDK (software development kit) with an IDE (integrated development environment). A SDK is nothing more than a set of libraries that allow you to write code for the target hardware. In this case, the SDK consists of a Firefox extension that you can install, which gives you an emulator that will simulate the phone hardware. You can totally write FirefoxOS apps in Notepad if you want to. It is…

I thought the whole point of Firefox OS was that the hardware layer would be accessed through JS API's like window.ondevicemotion, Canvas, navigator.geolocation, window.DeviceOrientationEvent, navigator.getUserMedia, navigator.vibrate, 'devicelight', navigator.battery.level, SMS, contactList, etc. And that the Firefox team would add even more features that can be accessed from the VM layer. And making the Firefox OS the most secure OS by adding app permissions. And that the VM could not be bypassed unless the computer gets re-flashed.

This might sound funny, but considering Moore's law and where we currently are on that exponential curve, making a fully virtual OS will be the next step in the PC evolution. You shouldn't have to write low level interrupts or accept that apps need full root access anymore.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#139

Post by leonhandreke » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 12:09 PM UTC

vijayr wrote: post #5

SwellJoe wrote: post #2

I'm unreasonably excited about Firefox OS. Android really isn't open enough for my taste, and my trust of Google has diminished over the years, as they've encroached on more and more of the web and my data on that web. Apple has always been awful for the open web. And I'd rather write JavaScript and HTML than Java.

Is it possible to write good mobile apps in JS and HTML, compared to Android or iOS? I don't know much about mobile programming, but it seems much harder for JS to compete with native apps, no?

I briefly looked at Firefox OS a few months ago and my conclusion was that the primary issue was neither JS nor HTML but rather that there is no canonical UI framework for the OS (please correct me if I'm wrong here). This means that there is no consistent look and feel across apps.

Re: Mozilla to open first-world front in Firefox OS war

#140

Post by smcl » Mon, Mar 02, 2015, 12:14 PM UTC

blueskin_ wrote: post #135

smcl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Microsoft were paying anybody cash to stuff their app store was sufficient to make your point. There's no need to bring prejudices against "3rd world countries" into this.

Nice scare quotes. Sorry to break it to you, but it's a well known and accepted term which does not invalidate an argument by its use.

What does "Nice scare quotes" mean?

Just realised you think I'm objecting to the term "3rd world countries". The term is outdated and no longer relevant today, but is not the issue. Re-read my comment - I agreed with the point but didn't like the finger pointing at devs in poorer countries. I'm not sure why that seems to have provoked a bunch of downvotes.