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Hello, World

hello-world.io

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Re: Hello, World

#161

Post by amyjess »

chucksmash wrote: post #95
jwmoz wrote: post #70

This rings true. I'm 30, have a well paid programming job, but I just don't care that much about it anymore. I used to be so passionate and enthusiastic. But now I feel like there's more to life than banging out code. Unfortunately there's not much else I know other than the internet and the fact it's currently making me a lot more money than 95% of my friends. So that leaves me ultimately disenchanted with nowhere t…

With money comes options. I think by default, the option most 30 years choose is to continue living paycheck to paycheck, but to do so in a more extravagant manner. If you aren't already, consider downsizing, paying off your debts and saving an aggressive percentage of your income. It won't make much of a difference in the short term but you are buying yourself more options down the road. If you can put $3,000 a mont…

Honestly, I'd rather just enjoy my life now than live like a monk until I'm older.

I'd rather have fun while my body is still in good condition. Besides, I could always get hit by a bus while I'm still saving money, and then it'd have all been for nought.

Living paycheck to paycheck in an extravagant manner is my ideal lifestyle, really.

Besides, I tried that whole "delaying happiness" thing. I'm transgender, and I didn't begin transition until just before I turned 29. Waiting so long was the single biggest mistake of my life. It wasn't until I was almost 30 that I finally had a face that didn't make me want to drive my fist through the mirror. I could have had that sooner, but I was stupid enough to keep putting it off and putting it off. I don't think words can possibly describe the depths of my grief over having wasted my youth living as the wrong gender. I cry myself to sleep almost every night, and I've contemplated suicide multiple times. No, I'm not wasting any more of my life sitting around and waiting.

Re: Hello, World

#162

Post by cmollis »

LVB wrote: post #132
lawl wrote: post #10

> I am burnt out on having a “40 hour” work week that actually occupies the majority of my mental time. This really resonated with me. I can't just stop thinking about this stuff just because I'm at lunch or at home if I'm working on a hard problem. But I don't get paid for that time.

I think it boils down to whether the overtime your brain is doing is satisfying. If I’m spending my commute and evenings worrying about work or otherwise stressing out negatively, I’d want to end that. But if my job ends up posing interesting problems that I can’t help wanting to solve off-duty, then that sounds like I’ve found the right profession and company.

I do have interesting problems to solve.. and I do enjoy that part of it actually (agree with your point). Problem solving is the fun part for me (and for most who are in this profession). However, if you're any good at it, there is no shortage of problems to solve (or people that will give them to you).

Re: Hello, World

#163

Post by polynomial »

sah2ed wrote: post #154
benologist wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we talk about driverless cars replacing taxis we really mean programmers replacing taxi drivers in aggregate. The cars are a constant, if you're responsible for a fleet of them you are just a better taxi driver.

Such programmers will rely heavily on automated tools and will have to follow a clearly defined process because driverless cars will always involve human life. The cost of a simple misconfiguration is extremely high. Besides, I fail to see how this can be considered manual labor or even the possibility of allowing average programmers to fill such positions.

This going to make the determination of responsibility in the case of an accident much more complicated.

Re: Hello, World

#164

Post by Retra »

benologist wrote: post #160
Retra wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of manual labor is not a proxy for "a person does it." The contrast to manual labor is social labor. Programming is almost entirely concerned with the mastery of language and communication. There's almost nothing manual about it: you just dictate actions to others (people or machines.)

Manual labor is exactly "a person does it", with no assumptions made on the skills or ability required to do "it". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_labour

Then all work is manual labor and it's a meaningless term.

>manual work is physical work done by people, most especially in contrast to that done by machines, and also to that done by working animals.

Here, inconveniently, "physical" is left undefined. And in fact, it's being used to mean "non-linguistic/non-social."

Re: Hello, World

#165

Post by benologist »

Retra wrote: post #164
benologist wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manual labor is exactly "a person does it", with no assumptions made on the skills or ability required to do "it". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_labour

Then all work is manual labor and it's a meaningless term. >manual work is physical work done by people, most especially in contrast to that done by machines, and also to that done by working animals. Here, inconveniently, "physical" is left undefined. And in fact, it's being used to mean "non-linguistic/non-social."

It just means you are physically required to perform the operation - work that is automated is not physically done by anyone, and where it gets confusing is we both provide the automation yet are required to keep it running.

Heroku and other PaaS systems eliminate server administration and scaling for many companies. That same work is still fundamental and critical for organizations like Amazon. But it is really just an inefficiency we are learning how to automate completely, with manual labor in the interim.

Re: Hello, World

#166

Post by meric »

DonHopkins wrote: post #105

"When a programmer picks up a new language it is customary to write the timeless Hello World application to ease your way into a daunting codebase with an overly-simplistic view of its syntax." Who has actually written a "hello world" program to ease their way into a daunting codebase? Anyone? I haven't.

Writing a new URL route in an existing web application, to serve hello world, yes.

Re: Hello, World

#168

Post by capisce »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #73
jofer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that programming attracts a lot of people that aren't in it for the love of the craft, I disagree with most of your sentiment. I see a creative person who struggles with having to focus on someone else's agenda. Most non-developers see programming as tedious, mind-numbing work that involves zero creativity. Most people who have never worked on a small farm or built a table/shed/house/whatever think of t…

"I see a creative person who struggles with having to focus on someone else's agenda." But if he loved/liked programming and the problem is just not working on something of his liking, nothing prevents him from either finding another more endearing programming job or working on his own thing. I believe the parent spot-on: not everyone is into programming because it is his/her own calling in life, for many people it's…

> nothing prevents him from either finding another more endearing programming job or working on his own thing.

Risk and lack of a safety net prevents people from working on their own thing.

Re: Hello, World

#169

Post by jakejake »

capisce wrote: post #168
Kurtz79 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I see a creative person who struggles with having to focus on someone else's agenda." But if he loved/liked programming and the problem is just not working on something of his liking, nothing prevents him from either finding another more endearing programming job or working on his own thing. I believe the parent spot-on: not everyone is into programming because it is his/her own calling in life, for many people it's…

> nothing prevents him from either finding another more endearing programming job or working on his own thing. Risk and lack of a safety net prevents people from working on their own thing.

That is true, but the author definitely took a giant leap to leave the field of programming - twice. Getting another programming job would have been a substantially less risky jump.

Re: Hello, World

#170

Post by mercer »

jakejake wrote: post #139
jofer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that programming attracts a lot of people that aren't in it for the love of the craft, I disagree with most of your sentiment. I see a creative person who struggles with having to focus on someone else's agenda. Most non-developers see programming as tedious, mind-numbing work that involves zero creativity. Most people who have never worked on a small farm or built a table/shed/house/whatever think of t…

I didn't intend any disrespect to farming. Rather, just for me, I love programming so much more than doing other kinds of work. I have in the past worked in the most corporate programming environments writing insurance processing systems. Even within those parameters there were all kinds of adventures and problems to solve. Perhaps I wasn't in control of the "grand vision" of the company, but I was solving the little…

>I don't say this to blow my own horn or anything but I feel like programmers who truly, truly love it - it's almost irrelevant what project they are working on.

I think that's only partly true. I absolute love programming, and as a result, yes, I have been able to find enjoyment in even the most pointless projects.

And yet, over time, that's not enough for me. For some reason I just cannot help but feel worse and worse eventually when I get the impression that my work has no 'higher' purpose (by whatever definition of 'higher' I employ).

Perhaps this is because I grew up with parents and in environments that were very idealism-driven. Perhaps it's personality. I'm not sure. But with any 'pointless' work I always reach a point where I can fully enjoy much of my day, but I feel drained and a bit depressed at the end of it.

I could see how a programmer who truly loves programming, and nothing else, might feel the way you describe though.

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