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FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

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Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#611

Post by adventured »

lkbm wrote: post #275
adventured wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referring to HN as though it's one person. There's wide disagreement over net neutrality. There's wide disagreement over allowing the FCC to pass a large framework for regulating the Internet without allowing the public to see what's in it. It's outrageous the FCC did this. Who knows what new powers were just granted to the government. You have no idea, because you were not allowed to see it. Recognizing that…

> It's outrageous the FCC did this. Who knows what new powers were just granted to the government. You have no idea, because you were not allowed to see it. Are you outraged at every FCC regulation? They're pretty much all passed before publication.

Yes, I find any government regulations that pass in a clandestine fashion without allowing the public to first have an opportunity to know what is being passed, to be truly vile. Who wouldn't be bothered by that approach to government? It's the kind of mentality that leads to laws like the Patriot Act.

It's the: we have to pass the bill, before we can know what's in it, form of government authoritarianism.

When it comes to not publishing what they're doing, I'm outraged in proportion to the scale or impact of the action. This was an extraordinarily large regulatory action, impacting the best vehicle for free speech that has ever existed.

The same government that has spent the last decade massively abusing Americans when it comes to privacy, just got handed regulatory keys to the Internet, without the right of the public to first review the new regulations.

How could a person not be outraged by that?

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#612

Post by PhasmaFelis »

ertdfgcb wrote: post #563
oceanstone wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There does seem to be a bias towards overly worded critical comments.

I think at least part of it is because the people on HN enjoy solving problems so much. When there's a post that says "we solved this problem", a lot of people here (me included) think "great, what's the next problem to solve". The focus is on "the next problem to solve" more than the "great", sometimes to the degree that the "great" is completely ignored. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but it can get…

> Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offence. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy

With all due respect to ESR, and speaking as an autistic person who has struggled with socialization, I get tired of people trying to paint their failure to grasp basic social principles as a virtue. Behaving like an efficient robot is useful when dealing with machines, but other people are not machines and treating them as such does not improve productivity even if you think it ought to.

A couple of jobs back, I met with a supervisor to proudly tell him that a gigantic, exhausting project I'd been working on for the last nine months was finally ready to deploy. His response, almost verbatim, was "Cool. Here's what I need you to do next..." I found it nearly impossible to care about what he wanted for the rest of my time there. 60 seconds' worth of interest and congratulations would have gotten dozens of hours of extra productivity out of me.

Sorry, that got awfully off-topic. It's just a hot button with me.

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#613

Post by [deleted] »

xnull2guest wrote: post #158

Unfortunately the Net Neutrality 'debate' was another lose-lose situation for the United States. What we wanted wasn't for the big telecom duopoly to be forced to either run their business as a tiered service or as a regulated utility. What we wanted was for the US Government to exercise its Anti-Trust capabilities and bust the universally hated Comcast and Time Warner into a bunch of small companies, and set "Goldil…

[deleted]

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#615

Post by BorisMelnik »

grecy wrote: post #463
xnull2guest wrote: post #158

Unfortunately the Net Neutrality 'debate' was another lose-lose situation for the United States. What we wanted wasn't for the big telecom duopoly to be forced to either run their business as a tiered service or as a regulated utility. What we wanted was for the US Government to exercise its Anti-Trust capabilities and bust the universally hated Comcast and Time Warner into a bunch of small companies, and set "Goldil…

There are two problems, and the FCC has solved one of them perfectly. Problem 1: ISPs trying to charge to (de)prioritize packets. Problem 2: The two biggest ISPs suck, and should be broken up, and/or it should be mandated that competition is much easier. Would you be happy if they solved problem 2 without solving problem 1? Leave problem 2 for another day, and celebrate that problem 1 has been dealt with.

...I'd be so happy if we could just cut through all the political tape and see Google Fiber come into our neighborhoods

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#616

Post by adventured »

Shivetya wrote: post #372

Curious how the American Disabilities Act will be applied to the internet through these regulations. It could mean anything from requiring all content providers to meet unknown rules to providing special equipment in homes as part of service requirements. Let alone, what is protection from discrimination when it comes to the internet? This is the problem with such open ended rules, there are no real limits. Why no pu…

What, you don't trust one of the least trust-worthy governments in modern history?

You don't trust the government that is actively, hyper aggressively abusing nearly every aspect of human privacy one can imagine?

Comeon now, this is a gentle, freedom loving, privacy loving government. They would never put anything in those 300 clandestine pages enabling vast expansion of censorship or spying powers.

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#617

Post by db102892 »

One need only look back at the Bell Telephone example to know that problems in the current Internet/ISP environment are not true problems.

But the FCC "fix", which will incorporate the same operating standards, will create many of the same problems that kept the phone system from making major advances for about 50 years. Then, in 1984, it all changed -- for the better.

If the government wants to experiment with its theories on "net neutrality", let it first test those theories on the operation of the Post Office.

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#618

Post by rodgerd »

bobbles wrote: post #476
grecy wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two problems, and the FCC has solved one of them perfectly. Problem 1: ISPs trying to charge to (de)prioritize packets. Problem 2: The two biggest ISPs suck, and should be broken up, and/or it should be mandated that competition is much easier. Would you be happy if they solved problem 2 without solving problem 1? Leave problem 2 for another day, and celebrate that problem 1 has been dealt with.

The headline could say that world hunger was cured but the top comment on HN would still be something like "yes, but X people are still dying in car crashes every year"

No, the top comment would be a bitter complaint that world hunger had been cured by the government, which can't do anything right, so it must be wrong to cure world hunger.

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#619

Post by cubano »

tw04 wrote: post #585
cubano wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Disbanding the last-mile monopolies would introduce the market forces needed to fix almost all the problems that most people think need fixing, although the corporate plutocrats would quickly scramble to consolidate things again, as they did during the cell phone explosion.

There's nothing to consolidate when last mile is unbundled. Cell companies consolidated because spectrum is a finite resource that they could possess sole ownership of. The consolidation of ISPs already happened when last mile unbundling was removed from the market. If they open it back up, buying an ISP is literally buying their staff. If the founders are smart, they cash out and just start up a new business doing t…

> If the founders are smart, they cash out and just start up a new business doing the exact same thing competing with whoever was dumb enough to buy them.

Interesting, but I'm sure we all know that part of the buyout would, of course, be a non-compete.

Re: FCC Passes Strict Net Neutrality Regulations on 3-2 Vote

#620

Post by whoisthemachine »

ertdfgcb wrote: post #563
oceanstone wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There does seem to be a bias towards overly worded critical comments.

I think at least part of it is because the people on HN enjoy solving problems so much. When there's a post that says "we solved this problem", a lot of people here (me included) think "great, what's the next problem to solve". The focus is on "the next problem to solve" more than the "great", sometimes to the degree that the "great" is completely ignored. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but it can get…

I don't know - I think in order to properly recognize and understand the difference between achievements and failures the community should at least give some credit and also give itself a small pat on the back for achievements such as this.

If you never know what success looks like, you're always failing.

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