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London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

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Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#61

Post by goodnights »

l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

"What is so wrong with that?"

Ask the people that are desperately trying to convince us otherwise. I see this a lot in "tech". That new library, language or company by "hackers" that are going to change everything. Start asking about security, practicality or why they sold and you're ignored at best. Not everyone expects you to do that, so if you're actually honest your projects gets no attention.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#62

Post by alvarosm »

jkot wrote: post #3

I dont get this. Bullshit jobs, pointless existence, drinking in bars, gentrifiers, working class. ..? It sounds like communist manifest. Most londoners I know are in constant buzz just to keep flowing. London problems could be fixed in four simple steps: 1) introduce 0.1% property tax 2) build a few decent schools 3) improve subway 4) deregulate high raise buildings

Both the author of the article and the people he talks about, embody the most absolute emptiness. You're not like them, it's understandable that you don't get it. I'm going to call it bullshit culture: a bunch of disoriented beings who don't know whether to worship filth or opulence, estranged from anything resembling critical thinking, reviving the most superficial communist doctrine of the 60s.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#63

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

This author hasn't spent a single day living with people that work for a living. There is just as much boredom with life and existential malaise amongst the working class as there is amongst the bourgeois. The only difference is, they have less free time and money to pursue things they think will fill the void.

I'm kind of sick of these idiots that raise a particular kind of work up on a pedestal. Seriously, the author is complaining about fetishization and doing a boatload of it himself.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#64

Post by TheCoelacanth »

sandworm wrote: post #41

"At the same time our doctors, teachers, university professors, architects, lawyers, solicitors and probation officers are rendered impotent. " What does it say about a society where lawyers, doctors and professors are considered "middle class"? These are educated professionals. They earn, or should earn, higher-than-average wages. But today such professions are looked down upon. Why would anyone want to be a doctor?…

Educated professionals such as doctors, lawyers, professors etc. is the original definition of "middle class". It's called "middle class" because it's between the "working class" and "upper class" in income, not because it's in the exact center of the income distribution.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#65

Post by gluggymug »

ripb wrote: post #33

While I connect with and appreciate many of the points he has made, I have to say I'm getting pretty damn tired of the almost constant attack on the white middle class person from left-wing journalists. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't with these journalists, many of whom are middle class or higher white people themselves who've simply developed somewhat of a hardon for self-loathing. If rich young te…

First, the article was about London not SF. London is dominated by finance not computing. Hence the use of quotes around 'creatives'. Most jobs in finance are just juggling other people's money. They aren't creating anything.

Second, the warehouse galleries, bars and restaurants aren't real working class. It's an illusion to give the middle class what they want. If it were real they wouldn't charge £4 beers because working class people can't really afford it.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#66

Post by JimboOmega »

primroot wrote: post #25
notahacker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, personally I thought it was dreadful even by the standards of left-wing articles bemoaning cultural malaise, some of which at least manage consistency. Hipsters are attacked both for being "unable to do anything useful, alienated from physical labor" and because "never will they face the grinding monotony of mindless work", for taking unpaid internships and for having mortgages. They apparently go to food ma…

This may sound somewhat intolerant, but I knew I would not be able to withstand reading an article that starts with a quote of Zizek. He is IMO a very prolific source of BS, and this I say as someone who has a decent amount of respect for the works of Marx. Actually from personal experience, I am very inclined to think that the author fits the stereotype of a hipster, as do some of my friends, for whom I've endured t…

Well, of course. Nothing is worse than the dreaded bro.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#67

Post by joeperks »

ashark wrote: post #44
brainpan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

Oh my, have you been following the same bread-crumb trail of reading from HN that I have? http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ Starts off iffy, gets really good. Incidentally, that page led me to this by the same author: http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html Which is very much like something I'd been meaning to write for some time, though better-done (and certainly longer) than mine probably woul…

I find "Meditations on Moloch" intensely interesting. Thank you so much for posting this.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#68

Post by vacri »

brainpan wrote: post #34
l33tbro wrote: post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? Well, that's what modern life is under the TINA regime[1]. A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived, in order to live as cells inside corporate organs of a hyper-capitalistic organism that would collapse if it stopped expandin…

Welcome to life in hell. You can get defensive and self-righteous when people point out the mass hypocrisy and delusion and error in all our lives, but it doesn't change the truth that we are all living in an awful state, as cowards and lapdogs of the hyper-capitalist system that gives us life today, even as it guarantees death in the future.

Rousing rhetoric, but it doesn't change the fact that while it's shit to be poor, it's still better to be poor now than at pretty much any previous time in known history.

A whole society of people who've sold out every heroic ideal humans have ever conceived

Which again sounds like nice and tasty demagoguery, but isn't true. We continually progress and improve on civil rights, for example.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#69

Post by vacri »

JimboOmega wrote: post #43
notahacker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, personally I thought it was dreadful even by the standards of left-wing articles bemoaning cultural malaise, some of which at least manage consistency. Hipsters are attacked both for being "unable to do anything useful, alienated from physical labor" and because "never will they face the grinding monotony of mindless work", for taking unpaid internships and for having mortgages. They apparently go to food ma…

Complaining that both hipster AND low class work are meaningless is a bit contradictory, definitely. And I have to give you props for pointing out that not every person with a decent office job is a millionaire. Anyway. What is the author's point, exactly? For the vast majority of the article, the point is "the life of the middle class is pointless; they try to find some meaning in it through trivialized edgy experie…

the life of the middle class is pointless; they try to find some meaning in it through trivialized edgy experiences

It's clear that the author has an extremely limited view of the middle class. It's an incredibly broad demographic; they aren't all twentysomething hipsters downing microbrews in converted warehouses.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#70

Post by ripb »

the_af wrote: post #59
ripb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The middle class are damned if they do, damned if they don't by the author's argument. And yet if the middle class ask their representatives to scale back the very same social programs that provide the uber cool, uber cultural working and welfare classes that the author is idolizing here they are demonized in the extreme. Sure, the middle class give the working and welfare class schools, access to universities, free…

The middle class "give" the working class access to universities and free healthcare? Um, what ?

What are you taking issue with? Keep in mind we're discussing the UK.
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