Is there anything wrong with the ones that already exist, which developers already cater to? What are they accomplishing here, exactly?
Is there anything wrong with IE? That's the question you're asking?
The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
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Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#22Is there anything wrong with the ones that already exist, which developers already cater to? What are they accomplishing here, exactly?
Accomplishing? Competition.
As devs we don't necessarily want a single browser to be dominant even though we might jokingly pray for such a thing during testing phases. We just want them to be standards compliant, right?
Don't get me wrong: there is a certain freeing joy when you work on a project where you know the target browser is the only one you need to think about (like say if you build kiosk apps or apps on a strict intranet).
But at the same time, if one player is too dominant or we only have a single voice about "this is what a browser should be" we get the crap we have lately with Apple's voice being too strong on what is or is not accepted into the HTML standard; or when IE had the 90%+ share it used to have.
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#23Browser war? Sure. But regardless of the improvements MS makes, they still have years worth of a bad reputation they have built up to get over. It will take leaps and bounds for them to ever build up the respect that Mozilla and Google have for building web technology.
If you think of the Browser-as-Operating-System, then building a legacy-free IE makes a lot of sense. That kind of OS development is right in Microsoft's wheelhouse and they need to do it to stay competitive if they want to continue to be a client-side application host.
If this Spartan team does a good job, then they'll brain drain the rest of Microsoft the way XBox did. Building a web browser from the ground-up in 2015 would be a pretty sweet project to work on. I'm nerd-salivating.
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#24> Finally. This is the Microsoft I've been waiting for! ... Microsoft is going to use its muscle and position to make a truly competitive browser.
Oh-ho man, what I wouldn't give to teleport this comment back to 1997 or so...
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#25YES! 1-2-3-4, I declare a browser war! Finally. This is the Microsoft I've been waiting for! No more rolling over and no defeatist talk of adopting WebKit or whatever. Microsoft is going to use its muscle and position to make a truly competitive browser. We need more competition, and we need the default browser in Windows to be just as good as Chrome and Firefox. Microsoft, I hope you pull every -ms- vendor flaggin',…
We have a already have lot of competition. In fact, it's never been better: Chrome, Firefox, WebKit, Chromium, Opera. You can even get the source code for Firefox and Chrome and contribute. I'm glad Microsoft is making a better go at it, but honestly, Microsoft could have built a more compliant browser any time they wanted too.
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#26>>> This is an ambitious goal given that the Web consists of over 44 billion Web sites
This is not the number of "web sites" but number of "web pages" [1].
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#27The main thing I would want from a Microsoft browser is actually keeping up to date with the latest in security protocols and crypto algorithms. IE has always been several years behind everyone else in this area, which just meant developers had to keep their websites less secure just to be able to serve IE users as well. That needs to end. I don't necessarily want Microsoft to be a leader in this area (not sure I'd t…
The agl draft is actually an out-of-date, expired first draft, but it did the job to get it kickstarted!
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-agl-tls-chacha20poly1...
AEAD_CHACHA20_POLY1305 is however about to be an RFC (via CFRG) - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-cfrg-chacha20-po... - , and the proper TLS WG draft will essentially just link to that: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mavrogiannopoulos-cha...
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#28YES! 1-2-3-4, I declare a browser war! Finally. This is the Microsoft I've been waiting for! No more rolling over and no defeatist talk of adopting WebKit or whatever. Microsoft is going to use its muscle and position to make a truly competitive browser. We need more competition, and we need the default browser in Windows to be just as good as Chrome and Firefox. Microsoft, I hope you pull every -ms- vendor flaggin',…
We have a already have lot of competition. In fact, it's never been better: Chrome, Firefox, WebKit, Chromium, Opera. You can even get the source code for Firefox and Chrome and contribute. I'm glad Microsoft is making a better go at it, but honestly, Microsoft could have built a more compliant browser any time they wanted too. https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
> Microsoft could have built a more compliant browser any time they wanted too.
That time is now, can we not be excited for it? Have you heard the parable of the prodigal son?
Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
They aren't targeting specific sites that are broken they are targeting more general patterns that seem to cause problems.
I understand the language. I don't understand what they mean by "patterns". Common edge cases where js/css/html is broken in specific ways? If you write html/css in a relatively compliant way, things will not be so broken that a browser vendor needs to account for them in a "long tail". If your js is broken, well tough luck. Are they just talking about how to implicitly handle commonly malformed HTML, as all browsers…
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Re: The birth of Microsoft's new web rendering engine
#30YES! 1-2-3-4, I declare a browser war! Finally. This is the Microsoft I've been waiting for! No more rolling over and no defeatist talk of adopting WebKit or whatever. Microsoft is going to use its muscle and position to make a truly competitive browser. We need more competition, and we need the default browser in Windows to be just as good as Chrome and Firefox. Microsoft, I hope you pull every -ms- vendor flaggin',…
We have a already have lot of competition. In fact, it's never been better: Chrome, Firefox, WebKit, Chromium, Opera. You can even get the source code for Firefox and Chrome and contribute. I'm glad Microsoft is making a better go at it, but honestly, Microsoft could have built a more compliant browser any time they wanted too. https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
Chrome and friends aren't webkit anymore, but only by way of forking. Otherwise Chrome, Chromium and Opera 15+ are the same engine. The family tree kind of looks like this:
-- Internet Explorer
-- Firefox
-- Safari
\
-- Chrome, Chromium, Opera 15+
-- Opera 12 (abandoned)