Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#1

Post by puppetaccount » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 12:46 AM UTC

A technical person at a potential large government customer of ours invited me to discuss our technology with him outside the office. This could be a red flag in itself but we had met twice before and I had learned that he graduated from the same school as I and around the same time I did and we knew some people in common. Additionally, he had given me a paper of his to read which was pretty decent and said he would like feedback. In general, he seemed like an enlightened techie who was enthusiastic about our technology and technology in general. There seemed to be no red flags.

The first time I met him, we discussed his paper and our project in general and he was generally encouraging, saying his organization could be very bureaucratic but he really believed what we were doing was the future and he would pull for us. He also indicated he was stifled in his job and would be interested in working for us in the future. This was a bit of a red flag but considering our connections outside of this project, it seemed like it could be an innocent thing. I told him that if he decided to leave his employer he should let me know and that we were at least a few months away from thinking seriously about hiring someone with his skills.

When I met him the second time, he out and out suggested that we pay him to push our project through and, when I told him his employer would most likely find that objectionable, he suggested various ways of hiding it. I was too shocked to say anything, afraid he would sabotage us if I said no to his face and insulted him and the only thing I could say to him was that my cofounder is very by the book and I really have to run it past him and that he should double check to find if it is actually allowed.

I have no intention of paying him or dealing with him again, but I feel dirty for not telling him off on his face. I am just posting this here to vent and see if anyone else has faced similar issues. How did you deal with them? Any advice for me?

How could I have handled this better? I am asking this seriously. Although I did not do anything wrong (or so my partner tells me), I feel that not doing anything more assertive than what I did was wrong. :(

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#2

Post by gstar » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:04 AM UTC

I've dealt with this when I had to mop up after a predecessor made a habit of taking bungs at a government department.

My advice to you is that you should have absolutely nothing to do with this. You should forget the sale now (it's a possibility that it was only entertained in the first place because your associate thought the payoff would be likely).

If you can anonymously tip off this person's superior one way or another, you'll be doing a good thing for everyone (citizens, colleagues, bung-seeker) in the long run.

This advice only applies for government - in private enterprise this kind of thing is pretty much par for the course on very big sales, but in modern times it normally takes the form of valuable free stuff rather than cash.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#3

Post by puppetaccount » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:13 AM UTC

gstar wrote: post #2

I've dealt with this when I had to mop up after a predecessor made a habit of taking bungs at a government department. My advice to you is that you should have absolutely nothing to do with this. You should forget the sale now (it's a possibility that it was only entertained in the first place because your associate thought the payoff would be likely). If you can anonymously tip off this person's superior one way or…

The dilemma is clearly between the larger good and my selfish interest in not seeing my company hurt. The industry we operate in is very narrow and while losing thus customer alone would hurt us a lot, having someone there say negative things about us could destroy us. I have already written off this customer, because if nothing else, the stress of having to manage a corrupt person while not indulging in corruption is not worth whatever money we make off them. But we would prefer to not get vilified in the industry because of someone else's character flaws.

I will find out about how to anonymously report this. I am thinking I could do it at least after a few months so at the very least it's not obvious who did it.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#4

Post by fiaz » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:14 AM UTC

You did perfectly fine - seriously.

Alternatively, you could have gone the comedic route by making the whole thing into a big joke, but it's not like things would have been better.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#5

Post by zackattack » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:15 AM UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRcamEx7EmA

Just kidding.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#6

Post by percept » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:15 AM UTC

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03...

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#7

Post by gstar » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:24 AM UTC

puppetaccount wrote: post #3

gstar wrote: post #2

I've dealt with this when I had to mop up after a predecessor made a habit of taking bungs at a government department. My advice to you is that you should have absolutely nothing to do with this. You should forget the sale now (it's a possibility that it was only entertained in the first place because your associate thought the payoff would be likely). If you can anonymously tip off this person's superior one way or…

The dilemma is clearly between the larger good and my selfish interest in not seeing my company hurt. The industry we operate in is very narrow and while losing thus customer alone would hurt us a lot, having someone there say negative things about us could destroy us. I have already written off this customer, because if nothing else, the stress of having to manage a corrupt person while not indulging in corruption i…

I understand, managing this for you has got to be really, really delicate.

There's potential downsides in doing nothing as well.

I'd still say it is worth having a word with someone more senior if you are able to. He'll likely lose his job, which is a horrible thing to have on your conscience - but if your sale goes through anyway, and he championed it - you could still end up on the hook. You'll either get tarred with his brush, or outright investigated for colluding with him, which may or may not be a crime where you are.

On the basis that you've written off the sale mentally, talking becomes an upside. It gives you another chance at making the sale on fair terms, and establishes your trustworthiness.

I don't envy you though, horrible situation.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#8

Post by puppetaccount » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:25 AM UTC

fiaz wrote: post #4

You did perfectly fine - seriously. Alternatively, you could have gone the comedic route by making the whole thing into a big joke, but it's not like things would have been better.

Having thought about this a bit, I feel like if I had turned a cold shoulder to his proposal to work for us in the future, he would have been discouraged about it. I could also have communicated in some other way that we work by the book.

At least then, we would have had the chance of working with other (possibly non corrupt) people in the organization to get our project through. I mean there are other people there who are enthusiastic about it.

Anyway, that's just me ranting. Thank you for your words.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#9

Post by puppetaccount » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:27 AM UTC

gstar wrote: post #7

puppetaccount wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dilemma is clearly between the larger good and my selfish interest in not seeing my company hurt. The industry we operate in is very narrow and while losing thus customer alone would hurt us a lot, having someone there say negative things about us could destroy us. I have already written off this customer, because if nothing else, the stress of having to manage a corrupt person while not indulging in corruption i…

I understand, managing this for you has got to be really, really delicate. There's potential downsides in doing nothing as well. I'd still say it is worth having a word with someone more senior if you are able to. He'll likely lose his job, which is a horrible thing to have on your conscience - but if your sale goes through anyway, and he championed it - you could still end up on the hook. You'll either get tarred wi…

Now you have me worried. If I did not offer him anything, how could I be held responsible for colluding with him?

I understand the risk of being painted with the same brush. This is all the more infuriating because there are other people, more senior than him at this organization who seemed enthusiastic about the project.

Re: Ask HN: How have you dealt with corruption?

#10

Post by Mz » Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 1:27 AM UTC

I don't see any benefit to taking a strong stand face-to-face. It's not like he would see the light or something. It would only ensure that he has a heads up, putting you in a seriously dangerous position.