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Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#11

Post by stupidcar »

nostrademons wrote: post #7
ramchip wrote: post #5

Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8985541

Also here, which IMHO is more informative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8901357

Yeah, this discussion points out an important point that it's easy to miss if you scan Facebook's patent grant: The license Facebook grants you is invalidated by any action that even alleges that any of Facebook's patents is invalid.

E.g. if you so much as Tweet that one of Facebook's patents, even one entirely unrelated to React, is invalid, you've lost your license.

Compare this with the patent grant in the Apache license, as used in a library like Angular: https://github.com/angular/angular/blob/master/LICENSE

Here the license is only terminated in the event that you institute litigation alleging patent infringement by the software itself. You're still free to challenge shitty patents and call out companies about them. Not so with Facebook's license.

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#12

Post by alandarev »

kibibu wrote: post #9
lmm wrote: post #8

There is no way to be safe from patents. Anyone could have them, they don't have to declare them, and they're written in deliberately obtuse ways so that you have no way of finding relevant patents before you're sued for infringing them (you don't have to have copied, or even be aware of, any patented thing to violate a patent). It's just a hazard of the software industry. The BSD license says nothing about patents,…

As I understand it, you're better off not looking for relevant patents so that you can claim accidental infringement rather than wilful infringement

It would be nice to find and share if React infringes any of the patents.

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#13

Post by SixSigma »

No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked.

And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity.

Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help

> The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone that makes any claim ... by ... assertion or other action ... alleging .. that any right in any patent claim of Facebook is invalid or unenforceable.

> https://github.com/facebook/fbcunn/blob/master/PATENTS

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#15

Post by randunel »

SixSigma wrote: post #13

No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked. And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity. Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone th…

So... I think Facebook has at least one unenforceable patent in my country.

There, I may no longer use their code :D

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#16

Post by callum85 »

SixSigma wrote: post #13

No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked. And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity. Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone th…

Who is downvoting this? Could you comment and explain why?

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#17

Post by SixSigma »

callum85 wrote: post #16
SixSigma wrote: post #13

No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked. And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity. Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone th…

Who is downvoting this? Could you comment and explain why?

Was probably because I asserted it without citation.

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#18

Post by kriro »

SixSigma wrote: post #13

No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked. And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity. Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone th…

Thanks for sharing this. It brings up some interesting questions. Does this mean React cannot be used by European government agencies since they claim (via law) that patents are not enforcable?

What if I merely live in the EU and thus implicitly agree to the laws in Europw. Does that fall under "other action" or would I have to explicitly state that I think their patents are not enforceable.

What if I have actively participated in the anti software patents movement? Do I have to single out specific Facebook patents for this clause to trigger or is it enough that they are caught in the general umbrella?

Edit: I'm assuming this is found on all the stuff they release and not just fbcunn? At least it's also true for react: https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?

#19

Post by matthewmacleod »

SixSigma wrote: post #13

No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked. And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity. Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone th…

…if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked.

This is not correct — your license to use any patent of Facebook's that covers the software is revoked. You are still not infringing copyright on the software by using it, but you will no longer be protected by Facebook's patent grant, which is in addition to your license to use the software.

This is a boilerplate patent grant, and it doesn't mean that Facebook holds any patents on e.g. React.

To be clear, this parent grant is in addition to your license to use the software and as a result does not restrict your freedom in any way, versus the license not being granted at all.

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