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Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#111
post #20

Just whiny, but why does Ubuntu (or most distros) not give any idea of minimum/average disk required for install in their system requirements area? I know, I can customize the install so as to reduce or increase space requirements, but even a suggestion that "a straight default install requires around 2gb of space for programs, and 1gb for swap" would be helpful.

I can't answer the general question, but for what it's worth a 32-bit desktop install took up about 2.5G on disk.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#112
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) OS X. A tad fuzzy, but everything is rendered _accurately_. Consistent thickness and character tracking (spacing). 2) Windows. Everything is slammed into pixel boundaries, making it look clean. Verdana is optimized for this style of rendering, so it doesn't look terrible.. but it's definitely not accurate. 3) Ubuntu. Worst of both worlds. Fuzzy and inaccurate.

I am honestly having a hard time believing someone with decent eyesite can say ubuntu(3) is fuzzy while osx(1) is not, ubuntu obviously chooses sharpness over balance (H and E), however osx has virtually every lowercase character heavily aliased, its blurry to the point where its almost 2 shades lighter than its supposed to be and there are individual characters A, u, B, a where it is almost a joke

I absolutely admit that OS X has a somewhat fuzzy appearance, particularly at small point sizes. This gets exaggerated with the MS Core/Web fonts, which were designed for the screen (stems that line up with pixel boundaries, etc), and have hinting that is specifically designed to be compatible with MS ClearType.

Ubuntu has similar (but not exactly the same) levels of fuzziness, but the rendering is inaccurate. Character tracking/spacing is the biggest issue, but there are others.

If you look at traditional fonts that are designed for print or general purpose use (e.g. Helvetica, Frutiger, Univers, Myriad, etc.), the accuracy and quality of OS X rendering stands out considerably. There is simply no comparison.. and once you get used to it, the small amount of "fuzziness" that you observe in small point sizes just doesn't bother you anymore.

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#113
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) OS X. A tad fuzzy, but everything is rendered _accurately_. Consistent thickness and character tracking (spacing). 2) Windows. Everything is slammed into pixel boundaries, making it look clean. Verdana is optimized for this style of rendering, so it doesn't look terrible.. but it's definitely not accurate. 3) Ubuntu. Worst of both worlds. Fuzzy and inaccurate.

I am honestly having a hard time believing someone with decent eyesite can say ubuntu(3) is fuzzy while osx(1) is not, ubuntu obviously chooses sharpness over balance (H and E), however osx has virtually every lowercase character heavily aliased, its blurry to the point where its almost 2 shades lighter than its supposed to be and there are individual characters A, u, B, a where it is almost a joke

OS X has the glyphs clipped to an imaginary sub-screen-resolution grid. The same letter may in some instances take up one black pixel and in others take up two (and be greyish in both). That's what he meant by accuracy. On linux every identical glyph is rendered identically, no matter where it is positioned.

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#114
post #64
post #58

It supports ARM; and a bunch of ARM-based netbooks are due out soon. They are cheaper and much more power efficient than intel's Atom etc. And Windows doesn't run on them (yet). I'm not a big linux vs. windows or ARM vs. intel fanatic, but I'm excited at what seems to be a disruptive inflection point coming up in the next year or so...

Being Windows-proof is, definitely, a feature for me ;-)

Me too. So many netbooks are coming out now that don't even work with Linux properly now like the Samsung ones and Ubuntu 9.04 even was broken with WPA Wireless on the EeePC 901. Also Dell only offer Linux on the very lowest model in their netbook range.

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#115
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between RAM & disk space continues to elude some, never mind megabytes versus gigabytes & now terabytes.

Yeah, I shouldn't have said it wouldn't confuse anyone, but it's still information that should be provided.

and has been ... ?

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#116
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you must have a fast machine... Try installing windows 7 or snow leopard on a computer with 2gb of ram and a 2 year old processor... then the eye candy won't really add to the experience.

Windows 7 is running on my 1.6ghz Sempron w/ 1GB of ram. I turned off the major eye candy (aero) and it still looks great and runs fine. That PC is the 'family' computer - so basically all it's used for is Surfing, streaming music through iTunes and instant messaging. It used to run ubuntu but everyone complained about how ugly it is - and I wasn't going back to XP. At least with Win7 I'm in the clear anti-virus wise…

hmm... I guess some people don't like brown. I would be happy if ubuntu came with a non-brown theme that had the same overall quality as the default theme.

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#117
post #73
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with msttcorefonts installed?

The problem is that it doesn't look good out of the box. I shouldn't have to hack a bunch of stuff together to get it working properly.

True - but when we start comparing it to Windows - (disable crapware, install firefox, install anti-virus, install iTunes) vs Ubuntu (install restricted-extras) then a Ubuntu setup starts looking pretty good.

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#118
post #91

but as always, I'm very scared to update.

Amen. I just can't get excited about fixing broken stuff on linux by tweaking text files any longer.

Is editing the registry or hunting down drivers for a new version of Windows better? Or how about waking up to Snow Leopard having deleted your $HOME folder? Operating systems have their issues - it's inevitable...

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. I just can't get excited about fixing broken stuff on linux by tweaking text files any longer.

Is editing the registry or hunting down drivers for a new version of Windows better? Or how about waking up to Snow Leopard having deleted your $HOME folder? Operating systems have their issues - it's inevitable...

> Is editing the registry or hunting down drivers for a new version of Windows better?

When was the last time that installing a new Windows involved registry hacks. I'll admit that I haven't used Windows 7 or Vista, but I don't remember hacking the registry on Win95/98/ME/2k/XP installs.

Maybe you shouldn't get so bent out of shape so quickly. It's not like he was bashing Linux and promoting Windows/OSX. If someone gripes about Windows do you immediately rush in to make comparisons to similar problems in OSX or Linux?

With the way that Ubuntu does releases though, it's little wonder that people are scared to update. It's been a revision or two since Ubuntu pushed Xorg over to using evdev for mouse handling/etc, and my Thinkpad's TrackPoint is still only recognized as a regular mouse (no scrolling) when previous Ubuntu revisions had readily setup scrolling automatically for me.

{edit} I'll add there are multiple blog posts, and a LaunchPad report, IIRC with the fix... which the Ubuntu devs have not seen fit to include in Ubuntu, so a fresh install mean applying all of the fixes. {/edit}

With the update to Jaunty (9.04), I've had a few woes with my Atheros chipset:

1. ath5k was forced as the default out-of-the-box driver for Atheros chipsets over the previous madwifi (ath_hal) driver.

2. ath5k is flakey whenever I come home and connect to my wifi network... even when the laptop is 2 feet away from the access point. It will connect/disconnect from the network 2-5 times before deciding to stay connected.

3. If I change position in my room (with the access point in the middle), the same connect/disconnect 'settling' period still needs to happen.

4. /var/log/syslog is filled with spam from NetworkManager with messages along the lines of this (even when I see no visible disconnects in nm-applet):

   'disconnect from network (mynetwork)'
   'connect to network (null)'
   'disconnect from network (null)'
   'connect to network (mynetwork)'
5. There are unexplained slow downs in the network with the ath5k driver. For the longest time I thought that my ssh woes (random 'hangs' that last 2-6 seconds) over my network were the problem of the server, but since I've switched back to madwifi they've vanished.

6. The madwifi driver still doesn't play nice with suspend-to-ram (and maybe suspend-to-disk but I haven't tested it). It will refuse to work after waking back up (and a modprobe -r/modprobe doesn't help). Ubuntu could easily fix this... Just need to drop `SUSPEND_MODULES="$SUSPEND_MODULES ath_hal"` into a file in '/etc/pm/config.d'. This problem has existed for at least 2 or 3 revisions of Ubuntu (maybe more). The fix is on the web and on Launchpad.net, but I have yet to see the fix make its way into an official release.

If me, as someone that knows my way around Linux, can get frustrated with these issues, then how can 'Bringing Linux to the Masses' be anyway near achievement? My laptop isn't exactly a brand new laptop with highly unsupported hardware. I'm running a ThinkPad X41.

[ Oh, and did I mention that the headphone jack stops working after the second time I suspend/resume after a fresh boot? I'm perfectly willing to work with the Ubuntu devs on Launchpad, but all of my suggestions/information is apparently falling on deaf ears. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/101986 ]

Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala released

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a few packages from http://www.getdeb.net/ and have several PPAs https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas installed as well so there's some secondary lag there as those developers release new packages for 9.10. Which shouldn't be too long, really. My main concern with this release is the ongoing, phantom ext4 (and sometimes 3?) corruption problem. Depending on which reports you read, it affects 64-bit installations s…

Out of curiosity ... why do you use the 64bit version? Do you have more than 4GB of ram?

IIRC 64-bit isn't just about memory size. x86_64 is a chance to use things like SSE for floating point rather than x87. The older floating point units are still on the processors, but in a depreciated fashion (Windows/Linux ABI don't use them). You can use SSE for floating point on a 32-bit system if you compile all of your apps yourself (ala Gentoo), but then the resulting binaries are not 'x86-compatible' because every x86 processor is not guaranteed to have SSE support.

As you can see, x86-64 isn't just about memory size.

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