Live data from Hacker News

Machine intelligence, part 1

blog.samaltman.com

121–130 of 188 posts

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#121

I could make a lot of comments here but I'd just be reiterating what people much more qualified than I have already said. People who are at the forefront of AI and have actually developed state of the art AI technologies for many years, in some cases decades: Andrew Ng: http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ai-wont-end-world-might-take-jo... "I think it’s a distraction from the conversation about…serious issues," Yoshua Bengi…

It's kind of unfortunate that the spectre of "AI doom" has blown up in the popular press the way it has, in that it's forced a lot of top people to push back against caricatured, sensationalist arguments in a way that distracts from the more serious conversations that ought to be happening.

Most of these people you cited actually have more nuanced views on the future of AI, e.g., LeCun and Bengio are (along with many others) signatories to the "Research priorities for robust and beneficial artificial intelligence" document (http://futureoflife.org/misc/open_letter, http://futureoflife.org/static/data/documents/research_prior...), which encourages research into AI's social and economic effects as well as research into technical questions of designing provably valid, secure, and controllable AI systems. Unfortunately when the conversation becomes "Stephen Hawking says we shut down AI research now before it dooms humanity", it becomes harder to express the belief that there are potential consequences of increasing machine intelligence that are worth understanding and planning for, even if we are not currently anywhere close to building superhuman general intelligences.

For what it's worth, expert opinion is not unified on AI risk in the way that it is on, say, climate change. First of all, most AI researchers don't spend their days thinking about long-term risks, so their main reaction is "the stuff I'm working on right now is such a toy that it has no chance of ever becoming a threat to humanity", which is probably true, but doesn't really make them an expert on the topic. Of the researchers who actually do think about this stuff, Stuart Russell is at least one example of someone who believes that there are serious questions to be asked (http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~russell/research/future/, http://edge.org/conversation/the-myth-of-ai#26015):

"None of this proves that AI, or gray goo, or strangelets, will be the end of the world. But there is no need for a proof, just a convincing argument pointing to a more-than-infinitesimal possibility. ... No one in the field is calling for regulation of basic research; given the potential benefits of AI for humanity, that seems both infeasible and misdirected. The right response seems to be to change the goals of the field itself; instead of pure intelligence, we need to build intelligence that is provably aligned with human values."

Hopefully once the popular fearmongering dies down a bit, the field can move towards more of a sane, thoughtful conversation regarding what if anything we should be doing to prepare for the potential arrival of very intelligent (specialized or general) machines in our lives.

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#122

>SMI Sam, please don't make up a new acronym. Especially if you aren't an AI researcher. Plenty of thought has gone into this and your statement about it not seeming "real" misses the history of AI. There has been a lot of work in the AI community to try and steer our language towards a concrete nomenclature and Artificial General Intelligence has taken the helm at this point to represent machine instances that are e…

Sam, please don't make up a new acronym.

Seconded. I see people using it here in replies and it's a new unnecessary acronym burden. Plus, if anything, it should be NBI (non-biological intelligence). At least that can be fun to say. "Why can't you go outside today?" "Sorry, my super-nibby said I haven't been working enough."

We have words, words mean things, use words to mean things. Half the business emails I get have new TLAs nobody has ever seen before (how about that MQ for DL DW and DMSA) and it needs to stop, don't we all agree?

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Machine intelligence, traditionally called artificial intelligence, which surpasses human intelligence. 2. Your category (b) is generally the primary concern in these types of discussions. 3. The anecdote of the progress of humanity. Compare the impact of human life/intelligence vs. evolutionary relatives like chimpanzees. I do not know that chimps have hunted species out of existence, for instance, but people hav…

To be fair, I don't think that the reason why Chimps haven't hunted something to extinction doesn't stem from a built in morality or sense of balance with nature. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth. I was just thinking of some of the new research that shows that primates of all kinds actually commit organized violence that mirror human violence in many, many, ways including war and capital punishment.(It's n…

Yeah, I'm not talking about morality at all here. Our technological prowess, resulting from the application of our intelligence, has enabled us to wipe out entire species.

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#125
post #2

Here are a few more excellent resources on the potential and the dangers of machine intelligence. Even if you don't expect to read Nick Bostrom's Superintelligence - a deep, provocative, and thoughtful book, but also very verbose - the above links will give you an excellent primer on humanity's prospects if and when we develop a true general AI: [Wait But Why] The AI Revolution, Part 1: How and when we achieve machin…

Here is the thing about all of those, none of them give concrete step by step examples of how we would get to "unfriendly" or "friendly" AGI respectively. Now, you might say - well of course because we don't know how an AGI will be built yet. Right! That is exactly the point.

At this point all of the MIRI (Former SIAI) staffers have stopped trying to explain paths to unfriendly AGI and have been just assuming them for their solutions. Just look at Yudkowski's work a few years ago on CEV and you'll see how any attempt at formalization falls apart.

Superintelligence just takes from the starting point they seeded in Global Catastrophic Risks, but doesn't actually address it in any more detail IMO. "Our Final Invention" tried also to do this but failed as well.

To be clear the AGI community understands thoroughly the risks inherent in AGI - I would venture to say far more-so than the non-researcher. So they are worth exploring, but at a certain point you have to say "We aren't sure if the atmosphere will catch on fire or not but lets try it anyway because it is the next logical step."

At some point we need to have the hard conversation about what humans will do in a world where we are less relevant.

Or just stop pursuing it altogether and put a moratorium on AGI research. A terrible terrible idea in my opinion.

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#126

I have yet to meet a serious AI researcher who worries about AI ending the human race. At every AI conference I've been to lately, some guy would inevitably ask the same question to the speaker: "do you think we should be concerned by superhuman AI?". The answer was always the same, for instance from Andrew Ng at the Deep Learning Summit a few weeks ago: "dude, stop it. That's such a distraction". > One of my top 4 f…

What would it take to convince you this is something worth worrying about?

Being very interested in this field myself for a few years, I know plenty of people who do worry about AI. But since other people have already mentioned some of them in the comments and been dismissed, I want to make sure we're on the same page: what do you consider to be convincing evidence that it's an issue worth thinking about?

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#127

I have yet to meet a serious AI researcher who worries about AI ending the human race. At every AI conference I've been to lately, some guy would inevitably ask the same question to the speaker: "do you think we should be concerned by superhuman AI?". The answer was always the same, for instance from Andrew Ng at the Deep Learning Summit a few weeks ago: "dude, stop it. That's such a distraction". > One of my top 4 f…

How about Jeremy Howard, former President of crowd-ML-competition site Kaggle and now founder of ML-medicine company Enlitic?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/2p6k20/im_jeremy...

The opinions of leading-edge researchers are valuable but not necessarily dispositive. Often, it benefits a researcher to be oblivious to the larger or darker implications of their work. Boundless optimism and a maniacal focus on only-what-is-knowable-right-now delivers publishable/actionable results, all the other 'speculation' is genuinely a "distraction" for them. That doesn't mean it's a distraction for us.

Often the speculators and entrepreneurs ("billionaires and pundits") are more talented than researchers at projecting trends and social-economic interactions.

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#128
“40 years ago we had Pong”

That’s very slow progress. We still have games on 2D, pixel-based screens. Better ones, but same qualitative idea; same order of magnitude in human experience. (VR is has not proved mainstream, yet.)

I say this because real-world, qualitative change is really slow. Despite all the activity in dating or real estate sites, most marriages and houses look like they did 40 years ago.

I say this to point out the difference between technical progress and real-world change. It takes a lot of the former – many orders of magnitude – to move the latter a few % points.

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#129
post #114

I could make a lot of comments here but I'd just be reiterating what people much more qualified than I have already said. People who are at the forefront of AI and have actually developed state of the art AI technologies for many years, in some cases decades: Andrew Ng: http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ai-wont-end-world-might-take-jo... "I think it’s a distraction from the conversation about…serious issues," Yoshua Bengi…

> How can we possibly prove that AI is not some kind of magical emergent property, "one simple algorithm away"? We can't. I hope you aren't a researcher, because this is a ludicrous statement. We haven't studied it enough to know whether we can or not.

> I hope you aren't a researcher

Andrej is a brilliant researcher, currently doing his PhD. He has a bright career ahead.

Maybe you should actually read his comment instead of dismissing it crudely, and likewise for the thoughts of the likes of LeCun, Ng, Bengio, etc. These are the people I would listen to, not the Nostradamus pundits.

Re: Machine intelligence, part 1

#130
This is a very interesting problem. A few things that I rarely see discussed, but I think are valid points.

We, humans, are a byproduct of similar evolutionary processes that (at least in theory) the computers would go through.

We as a species seem to have settled on a few interesting "rules of thumb". We value intelligent life, in all its forms. We value collaboration and have found that democratization is the best (though perhaps not the most efficient) way to govern.

Though I would of course be cautious, it is worth a mention that it is perfectly plausible that these are the same conclusions that "optimized learning algorithms" would come to as well. Except they will theoretically figure this out in a matter of minutes or hours while it has taken our species millions of years to get to this point.

Post reply on HN