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Tired of Safari

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Re: Tired of Safari

#111

Post by technojunkie »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #28
bonn1 wrote: post #14

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps. They shouldn't have any interest in a fast innovating web that gets on par with native apps which is their main lock-in for iOS, just like Microsoft 15 years ago. They only speed up their rendering engine and JS core but don't try to help on standards improving the web experience. BUT: I doubt this pointer event t…

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit That's a really pedantic objection — prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished i…

No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all.

One could argue that the browser has matured to a point where, technically, they slowed down the innovation of Safari on all platforms. If you look at the amount of features introduced in every new version of the last few years, it is less. iOS7 Safari is a notable exception but Safari has not kept up with innovation that they once had.

prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished is exactly what prefixing is for.

Pedantic is Apple purposely lagging behind over said unfinished standards when the rest of the industry has moved on. Vendor prefixes are tedious for web developers to keep up with and tools such as Autoprefixer were forced to be developed b/c of them. Webkit has been unprefixed for ~6 months now and Safari and iOS have both seen updates since then without this change. This should be unacceptable and if there are still reasons to include it Apple needs to be way more transparent.

I'm not anti-Apple by any means, sitting here writing this on my MacBook Pro, but pressure on Apple to get their act together is absolutely warranted and needed to promote standards based design and development which will make a better User Experience for all.

Re: Tired of Safari

#112

Post by Loque »

experimental- wrote: post #56
bonn1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. No reason to get emotional. > That's a really pedantic objection — Pedantic? Positioning elements is the most important feature of a layout system and CSS is totally broken in this regards, just try to vertical center something. Flexbox is godsend and finalized—every vendor removed the prefix. Wondering who is pedantic. > Apple could easily just not…

Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model); flexbox of course offers much more than that. Flexbox may be finalized and unchangeable, if only because so many browsers already support it unprefixed (as support for such properties is almost never removed) – however, like much of the CSS3, flexible box model is not yet a W3C Recommendation, and is, in theory at least, subject to change. With…

using display: table-cell; is a hack and has quite a few gotchas. However it was a very useful hack none-the-less for a feature which most designers would never expect would be such a challenge.

Re: Tired of Safari

#113

Post by legulere »

0x0 wrote: post #2

(Mobile) Safari is well under way to become the new IE6, especially for older iOS devices that do not receive further updates. :(

This is a pretty ridiculous claim considering that iPhones get updates for four years while android devices get updates for less then two years.

Re: Tired of Safari

#114

Post by pjmlp »

teamhappy wrote: post #53
melling wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And desktops. IE8 still has almost 20% market share. https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr... XP looks like it will be with us long after people have upgraded to newer iPhones.

IE 8 has less than 5% in pretty much every other statistic. http://www.w3counter.com/trends http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-browser-ww-monthly-201401... https://www.stetic.com/market-share/browser/ http://clicky.com/marketshare/global/web-browsers/versions/

Those statics don't cover company internal websites.

Re: Tired of Safari

#115

Post by vardump »

Tired of Safari, but for different reasons. Mobile Safari is probably the biggest reason I don't want to use iPad or iPhone. No reflow of text after zoom, and I don't want to move back and forth right and left to read larger size text. Very useful when reading while walking or when website text is just too small. Reading list doesn't replace good zoom text reflow.

I have an iPhone, but I use it so rarely it's sometimes out of battery for weeks. I guess it's too "one size fits all" device to me. Some things are deceptively nice in it, it's smooth... but it doesn't respect my wishes.

Using Opera on Android instead. Perfect mobile browser for a mobile phone after enabling flow option in the settings (Text wrap).

Another app I couldn't live without is f.lux or equivalent. I wish iOS could have it without jailbreak.

Re: Tired of Safari

#116

Post by legulere »

euroclydon wrote: post #43

Desktop Safari sucks too. It has good battery life on a Mac, but tends to crash frequently for me. The thing I hate the most though is this: On the favorites bar, click a folder to drop it down, now click another folder while the first is still dropped down -- nothing! I'm not even asking to be able to drag my pointer to the next folder and have it expand, but that would be even better.

In fullscreen mode drag a tab somewhere so that a new window gets created. This new window will have some vertical offset broken and can't be fixed by anything you do (black stripe on the bottom in fullscreen mode, lots of strange behaviour)

Re: Tired of Safari

#117

Post by Eric_WVGG »

simonh wrote: post #108
falcolas wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these problems could be solved by a company with Apple's resources if they wanted the problems solved. Need more developers? Hire more. Payscale problems? Pay your developers what they are worth to you. Of course, if they aren't worth much to you, then this point is moot. Retention problems? Addressed by both points one and two. That they do not use their resources to solve these problems says more than the fa…

>ed more developers? Hire more. They're aiming to increase their total number of Cupertino employees from 16k to over 24k in 2016. For any organisation, absorbing another 7k+ employess is no mean feat. Apple is experiencing unprecedented success and fantastic growth. But sure, that's trivial to manage. You could do it in your sleep. Maybe you should drop Tim Cook an email.

magic money wand, right?

How do you even find 8000 people who would want to live in Cupertino… I mean have you even visited that place?

Re: Tired of Safari

#118

Post by technojunkie »

sirn wrote: post #73
bonn1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably, it will be available when Apple release the next version of Safari How do you know? It's was unprefixed already ~3 months ago, so why should it happen with the next release? And when does the next release come? And why do their release cycles are not as short as those from Chrome or Firefox? Because it's not their core business. > ... to be lack of contributors on WebKit's part than anything. Exactly wh…

> How do you know? It's was unprefixed already ~3 months ago, so why should it happen with the next release? It was unprefixed ~6 months ago. Their latest Safari release tracks WebKit release 600 which contains all changes until July 2014[1]. The latest WebKit release is 601, which contains all changes until September 2014[2], including the flexbox unprefixing. Safari normally update WebKit to the latest release in a…

The first link you referenced contains a chromium dev stating the flexbox spec was stable as of summer 2012. This is an example of a secretive Apple not being transparent about why they lag behind the rest of the industry. This behavior helps no one.

Re: Tired of Safari

#119

Post by sirn »

technojunkie wrote: post #118
sirn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know? It's was unprefixed already ~3 months ago, so why should it happen with the next release? It was unprefixed ~6 months ago. Their latest Safari release tracks WebKit release 600 which contains all changes until July 2014[1]. The latest WebKit release is 601, which contains all changes until September 2014[2], including the flexbox unprefixing. Safari normally update WebKit to the latest release in a…

The first link you referenced contains a chromium dev stating the flexbox spec was stable as of summer 2012. This is an example of a secretive Apple not being transparent about why they lag behind the rest of the industry. This behavior helps no one.

Sorry, I'm not sure I get your point, are you referring to this comment:

    2012-08-31  Tony Chang  
    
      Remove ENABLE_CSS3_FLEXBOX compile time flag
      https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95382
    
      [..snip..]
    
      Everyone is already enabling this by default and the spec has stablized.
If so, as a honest question, I'm not sure how is this comment related to, or why should it be an example for Apple not being transparent about why they lag behind. Can you clarify?

Re: Tired of Safari

#120

Post by throwaway41597 »

streptomycin wrote: post #32

Another example: they ignored IndexedDB for a couple years after every other major browser implemented it. Then they finally got around to releasing a version of Safari with IndexedDB support... and it's just hilariously broken in so many ways http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B... I literally cannot fathom how such a horribly buggy release could be made in good faith. It's like nobody even t…

And there's the slow release cycle. It was common during the previous decade because of the stagnation of standards, but now that standards release early and often, it really shows their unwillingness to keep up.

When bugs ship with the first version of their implementation, it's really frustrating to have to wait for up to a year to see the fix go to users.

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