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Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

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Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#41

Post by matthewowen »

slayed0 wrote: post #33
chrisBob wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay might be high but the average career is much shorter than that of a programmer. I bet the lifetime earnings aren't even that much different than the average person checking HN from California.

Average MLB Career is 5.6 years[1] * $3.8M/year = $21.28M Divide that by 40 (assuming a career from 25-65) and you still have $532k/year. [1] http://www.ramfg.com/RAM-Financial-Group-Solutions-Professio...

But in baseball, almost every player has to play in the minors first. The majority of minor leaguers don't make it to the majors... but it isn't usually possible to tell which type of minor leaguer you'll be for a few years.

So in pursuing professional baseball, you really do open yourself to a significant risk of finding that you're 26 and spent the last five years making very little money and now you don't have a job, or any professional skills beyond the offseason job you may have worked.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#42

Post by grecy »

bcantrill wrote: post #19
grecy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by cutting down the number of games from 162 to 100 Since coming to North America I've always felt one of the problems with Baseball and Hockey is they just play too many games, so no game is significant enough. When your team loses to a certain team, you don't care enough because you know they'll play them multiple times more. Baseball is 162, Hockey is 82 games in "regular season" NFL is only 16 games, which to m…

You just haven't followed baseball closely enough. When it's September and you're in a close divisional or wildcard race, there is nothing more exciting in sports: every pitch counts and every at-bat counts -- and there are ~5-6 games per week. (And that only counts your team! Part of the terror of a close race is that you're also watching every pitch and every at-bat of your rivals.) If anything, it's almost excitin…

It was recently explained to me that Professional sports is watching other people have the time of their lives....

If you're at a bar drinking, or at the game, you're literally paying to watch other people have the time of their lives.

Worth thinking about

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#43

Post by afogarty »

freehunter wrote: post #26
UnethicalHacks wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if you're a professional athlete this should not be all that difficult. Boring but not difficult. Look at the average baseball player. So many of them are plump or overweight. I'd argue that soccer players running 10-15 miles every game have a bit more to deal with. baseball needs some yoga and proper nutrition.

A first baseman, sure. They only need to be able catch well and sometimes throw across the infield. Find me an out-of-shape center fielder. Miguel Cabrera, for example, is a bit bigger. He's slow getting around the bases. But his talent, other than being a first baseman, is hitting the ball hard enough that he can casually stroll around the bases if he wants. But humans were meant to run. That's why we stand upright,…

People don't realize just how much pitching taxes the human body. There's a reason why most pitchers have several joint surgeries over the course of their careers.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#44

Post by afogarty »

slayed0 wrote: post #33
chrisBob wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay might be high but the average career is much shorter than that of a programmer. I bet the lifetime earnings aren't even that much different than the average person checking HN from California.

Average MLB Career is 5.6 years[1] * $3.8M/year = $21.28M Divide that by 40 (assuming a career from 25-65) and you still have $532k/year. [1] http://www.ramfg.com/RAM-Financial-Group-Solutions-Professio...

Not to mention that you can start a new career once you're done playing ball.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#45

Post by philwelch »

freehunter wrote: post #26
UnethicalHacks wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if you're a professional athlete this should not be all that difficult. Boring but not difficult. Look at the average baseball player. So many of them are plump or overweight. I'd argue that soccer players running 10-15 miles every game have a bit more to deal with. baseball needs some yoga and proper nutrition.

A first baseman, sure. They only need to be able catch well and sometimes throw across the infield. Find me an out-of-shape center fielder. Miguel Cabrera, for example, is a bit bigger. He's slow getting around the bases. But his talent, other than being a first baseman, is hitting the ball hard enough that he can casually stroll around the bases if he wants. But humans were meant to run. That's why we stand upright,…

Baseball pitchers regularly play well into their 40's. Jamie Moyer was still pitching a month or two shy of turning 50. For soccer players, still playing at 40 is nearly unheard of. Ryan Giggs did it, but that's about it, and it was mostly sentimentality that kept him playing that last year or so. So I would disagree that baseball is that much more taxing than soccer.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#46

Post by jghn »

philwelch wrote: post #45
freehunter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A first baseman, sure. They only need to be able catch well and sometimes throw across the infield. Find me an out-of-shape center fielder. Miguel Cabrera, for example, is a bit bigger. He's slow getting around the bases. But his talent, other than being a first baseman, is hitting the ball hard enough that he can casually stroll around the bases if he wants. But humans were meant to run. That's why we stand upright,…

Baseball pitchers regularly play well into their 40's. Jamie Moyer was still pitching a month or two shy of turning 50. For soccer players, still playing at 40 is nearly unheard of. Ryan Giggs did it, but that's about it, and it was mostly sentimentality that kept him playing that last year or so. So I would disagree that baseball is that much more taxing than soccer.

"Baseball pitchers regularly play well into their 40's"

Unless you're someone like Mark Prior who had their body give out when their career was just getting started. Why are you only highlighting the outliers, the genetic freaks (amongst genetic freaks no less)?

The thing with baseball pitchers is that there's an enormous selective pressure on their bodies (primarily shoulder & elbow) being able to withstand the brutal toll throwing all those pitches causes. The absolute best pitchers (talent wise) might never even make it to the MLB because their arm falls apart before they get a chance. There are pitching motions which hurt my arm just doing them in slow motion, now imagine heaving a baseball 90+ mph repeatedly for your entire life.

This is a far different selective pressure than what e.g. soccer players would have where quickness & speed on their feet is what matters.

The problem with these discussions is that people are using words like "taxing" to only narrowly mean what they want it to mean.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#47

Post by TwoBit »

carsongross wrote: post #3
TwoBit wrote: post #2

I must not understand Baseball well, because it strikes me as one of the least fatiguing sports that there are.

Here is what I'd recommend: for four hours, alternate sitting and standing every ten minutes in a sunny park. When standing, once every thirty seconds or so tense into a squat position and concentrate as hard as you can on something about 100 feet away. Every 10th time, sprint all out in a random direction. Every 20th time, throw a rock as hard as you can as far as you can. What you will find is that you, a normal hu…

Compare that to what other athletes do in their sports and it seems trivial. The Tour de France involves racing your bike for 130 miles a day, every day for a month, over mountains multiple times a day.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#48

Post by philwelch »

jghn wrote: post #46
philwelch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baseball pitchers regularly play well into their 40's. Jamie Moyer was still pitching a month or two shy of turning 50. For soccer players, still playing at 40 is nearly unheard of. Ryan Giggs did it, but that's about it, and it was mostly sentimentality that kept him playing that last year or so. So I would disagree that baseball is that much more taxing than soccer.

"Baseball pitchers regularly play well into their 40's" Unless you're someone like Mark Prior who had their body give out when their career was just getting started. Why are you only highlighting the outliers, the genetic freaks (amongst genetic freaks no less)? The thing with baseball pitchers is that there's an enormous selective pressure on their bodies (primarily shoulder & elbow) being able to withstand the brut…

There are lots of Major League pitchers in their 40's. There might be no Premier League outfield players in their 40's. Lots of players in both sports get injured and end their careers in their 20's.

No doubt that a starting pitcher's pitching arm takes a lot of abuse, but they can have much longer careers than almost any other athlete.

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#49

Post by jghn »

philwelch wrote: post #48
jghn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Baseball pitchers regularly play well into their 40's" Unless you're someone like Mark Prior who had their body give out when their career was just getting started. Why are you only highlighting the outliers, the genetic freaks (amongst genetic freaks no less)? The thing with baseball pitchers is that there's an enormous selective pressure on their bodies (primarily shoulder & elbow) being able to withstand the brut…

There are lots of Major League pitchers in their 40's. There might be no Premier League outfield players in their 40's. Lots of players in both sports get injured and end their careers in their 20's. No doubt that a starting pitcher's pitching arm takes a lot of abuse, but they can have much longer careers than almost any other athlete.

That's not my point, what I was saying is that the two have completely different curves due to relying on completely different physical attributes.

A soccer player (or NBA player or many NFL positions, etc) is going to deteriorate steadily as they age after hitting some peak year. For some sports there'll be a slight bubble after that ast the intersection of athleticism decreasing and increasing wisdom but not for all. Sure, someone might endure a catastrophic injury and some players are made of glass (e.g. Greg Oden in the NBA) but generally players will wash out either when their athleticism is not high enough for their level or it deteriorates below the level necessary.

A baseball pitcher's curve is different. Their arm/shoulder will either be able to withstand the long term abuse or it won't and if it's the latter they'll wash out pretty early on (likely long before they ever see an MLB field). Once they clear that hurdle the actual deterioration rate is much slower in the general case. It also helps that pitching is a position where accumulated wisdom can really help, a lot like the quarterback in american football and that can help balance out declining athleticism as well

Re: Baseball’s Fight with Fatigue

#50

Post by steverb »

pokpokpok wrote: post #11
steverb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I've always thought they should put a speed limit on pitching. These days watching baseball feels like watching two guys play catch.

if you mean that you want them to nerf pitching, I think that the appropriate way to do that is to lower the mound

Yes, nerfing pitching was what I was thinking, and I think lowering the mound would be an excellent idea.

Not that MLB is listening to me. :-)

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