Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 58 posts

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#41

Post by toomuchtodo »

digitalneal wrote: post #37
tdees40 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimes are what we decide they are! Criminalizing this sort of behavior is something that most Americans don't want [1]. Expecting someone to be ashamed for violating a law that isn't particularly popular seems silly. Should Uber be ashamed for violating taxi regulations, when those regulations are hated by consumers? [1] http://americasvoice.org/blog/fox-news-poll-confirms-path-to...

I'mma let you finish but let me twist your example a little further. Should Uber be ashamed that by violating taxi regulations, women have been raped/stalked because of how they operate?

> Should Uber be ashamed that by violating taxi regulations, women have been raped/stalked because of how they operate?

Does following taxi regulations prevent these events from occurring? If no, then of course not.

The separate question is, can a corporation experience shame?

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#42

Post by Torgo »

kiba wrote: post #27
sparkzilla wrote: post #15

She should have gone through the process like everyone else. I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in my business to get a visa, spending all of that money on American suppliers and employing Americans. Now that the business failed I have to leave the U.S., taking my kids out of their schools, and start the process all over again, taking even more time, expense and disruption. But I am not going to break the la…

As usual, the people who abide by the rules get screwed, while those who break them, not only thrive, but get written about as some kind of heroes. Did she steal, defraud, or harm anyone? If she contributed something of economic value, why are you so against her staying? Maybe you should blame the immigration process instead.

>Did she steal, defraud, or harm anyone?

Well, she was creating and selling derivatives, for Goldman Sachs, prior to 2008.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#43

Post by toomuchtodo »

Incredulous42 wrote: post #38
refurb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that under certain circumstances, such as marrying a US citizen, the USCIS can ignore any past violations of immigration law.[1] "If you are a foreign citizen who is in the United States without permission, having overstayed your visa, you can indeed cure the problem if you enter into a bona fide (real) marriage with a U.S. citizen and then apply for adjustment of status (a green card)." You are c…

Interesting. There was an episode on This American Life a few years ago about a Mexican-American couple. He had been in the US illegally and he had to leave and wait for ten years before he could come back legally even though they had married in the US. So they moved to Ciudad Juarez. He's working at a local factory, she's commuting to El Paso every day. IIRC they weren't entirely happy with their situation but they…

Would you have a link to this story? I'd love to listen to it!

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#44

Post by PhoenixWright »

Personally I was inspired by her story. At 11 she didn't exactly decide to break the law herself. Do you all expect her to move to a place she doesn't even know after graduating from a great U.S. school? To me her story is of one who astutely overcame an insane amount of obstacles to achieve tremendous success.

Also for those veiled "illegal alien" racist I hope your smug attempt to caste a group of people as beneath you gives you the complacency you so crave.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#45

Post by Incredulous42 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #43
Incredulous42 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. There was an episode on This American Life a few years ago about a Mexican-American couple. He had been in the US illegally and he had to leave and wait for ten years before he could come back legally even though they had married in the US. So they moved to Ciudad Juarez. He's working at a local factory, she's commuting to El Paso every day. IIRC they weren't entirely happy with their situation but they…

Would you have a link to this story? I'd love to listen to it!

I believe it's Act Two of episode:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/501/t...

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#46

Post by jrells »

wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

> She should be ashamed: she appears to have violated immigration, pension and tax laws.

She is an illegal immigrant, and a shameless criminal, but why should she be ashamed? Braking a law does not necessarily imply anything shameful, and sometimes it is shameful to obey unjust laws. I hope everyone can think of some laws (at least from history) that you'd be proud to break.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#47

Post by ap3 »

wooyi wrote: post #40
wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

She was a minor when she came over. She was just trying to survive and succeed and the laws made it difficult for her to do so. Up until the 1960s, blacks were not allowed basic rights and access to many thing, and doing so was considered "criminal". Ditto with gays until recently. So, anyone fighting against unjust laws are "criminals?

From the article: "Just as she was graduating in 2001, a new law made it possible for undocumented Texas students to attend public universities at in-state rates."

Actually this law made it easier for her to attend college as an undocumented immigrant. But then what ? what are undocumented immigrants that graduate from college supposed to do ? go back to working as cooks and maids ?

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#48

Post by jrells »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #39
wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

"Well, when we look back on history, the progress of Western civilization and human rights is actually founded on the violation of law. America was of course born out of a violent revolution that was an outrageous treason against the crown and established order of the day. History shows that the righting of historical wrongs is often born from acts of unrepentant criminality. Slavery. The protection of persecuted Jew…

I could spend my whole life correcting people who draw an equivalence between legality and morality, and that would be a life well spent.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#49

Post by huherto »

sparkzilla wrote: post #15

She should have gone through the process like everyone else. I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in my business to get a visa, spending all of that money on American suppliers and employing Americans. Now that the business failed I have to leave the U.S., taking my kids out of their schools, and start the process all over again, taking even more time, expense and disruption. But I am not going to break the la…

You could also break the law. But you don't because you have a lot to lose and most importantly you do have (shitty?) alternatives.

In her case, she was 14, and she had already broken the law. There were no other alternatives. And it wasn't easy. She got luck and did it in ~10 years.

I don't agree with that. Just that don't be so quick to judge without understanding her own situation.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#50

Post by wtbob »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #39
wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

"Well, when we look back on history, the progress of Western civilization and human rights is actually founded on the violation of law. America was of course born out of a violent revolution that was an outrageous treason against the crown and established order of the day. History shows that the righting of historical wrongs is often born from acts of unrepentant criminality. Slavery. The protection of persecuted Jew…

Yes, unjust laws should be ignored. Is it unjust for a culture to attempt to regulate the rate at which it admits outsiders? I don't think so. As outsiders enter an organisation, they both alter it and are altered by it; if too many enter it before they are altered by it (i.e., assimilated), then the organisation fundamentally changes.

We all know that this is true of startups; if a startup grows too quickly, it risks losing the culture which enabled it to succeed in the first place. Risk-takers are slowly drowned out by risk-avoiders, and eventually the startup loses its drive. Is it so crazy that the same would be true of states?

I posit that there's nothing unjust about regulating the rate of influx into a society, and plenty unjust about flouting those regulations and cutting one's place in line.

Incidentally, Edward Snowden should be hanged by the neck until dead; quoting him is hardly compelling.

Post reply on HN