As far as I'm concerned, Apple still have a bit of time left to bask in the afterglow granted for mortally wounding Flash by keeping it off of iOS.
Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
31–40 of 151 posts
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If we had Apple on board with PE, we’d still be on board too. You entirely missed this quote in the article. How do you explain that?
It seems worth noticing that this is more political than technological argument. Google choose not to implement Pointer Events and used Apple as a scapegoat. I'm not happy with Apple's decision, but I'm even less happy with Google using Apple as some kind of feature implementation oracle.
The OP is also critical of Google. But doesn't make Apple any less wrong.
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#33The answer is a gritty, in-your-face "no". We have a recurring situation where all vendors (save for Apple) show interest in standard, but because Apple does not express that same interest, the standard gets waylaid. That is literally not true – Google, by some metrics the biggest vendor, has also shown no interest in PE. Frankly, I don't see that much of a problem with Webkit and its' adherence to standards. Broadly…
Did you see Google's comment quoted in the article? No argument that PE is more elegant. If we had a path to universal input that all supported, we would be great with that, but not all browsers will support PE. If we had Apple on board with PE, we’d still be on board too.
I did see that – but it's a pretty nonsense argument, isn't it?
Surely the only way to put pressure on Apple to implement PE is to go ahead and do it regardless, like all of the other vendors?
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If we had Apple on board with PE, we’d still be on board too. You entirely missed this quote in the article. How do you explain that?
It seems worth noticing that this is more political than technological argument. Google choose not to implement Pointer Events and used Apple as a scapegoat. I'm not happy with Apple's decision, but I'm even less happy with Google using Apple as some kind of feature implementation oracle.
This isn't Google using Apple as a feature implementation oracle, this is Google looking at pointer events using both their "web developer" and "browser developer" hats and reaching a disappointing conclusion.
As a web developer, Google would have to use Touch Events because that's all that Apple supports. Chrome already supports Touch Events. That covers the overwhelming majority of their touch-enabled users, with code they already have. Rewriting that to use a newer modern standard everywhere is one thing, but writing a second implementation with no path to sunsetting the first is much harder to justify.
Coming full circle, if Google's web developers aren't going to use Pointer Events for the forseeable future, it is hard to justify Google the browser developer putting them high on their priority list.
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#35The answer is a gritty, in-your-face "no". We have a recurring situation where all vendors (save for Apple) show interest in standard, but because Apple does not express that same interest, the standard gets waylaid. That is literally not true – Google, by some metrics the biggest vendor, has also shown no interest in PE. Frankly, I don't see that much of a problem with Webkit and its' adherence to standards. Broadly…
> If we had Apple on board with PE, we’d still be on board too. You entirely missed this quote in the article. How do you explain that?
Can you prove the quote was not spin to make Google appear to have the moral high-ground here?
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#36As far as I'm concerned, Apple still have a bit of time left to bask in the afterglow granted for mortally wounding Flash by keeping it off of iOS.
Really? That was 7 years ago.
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Um, that's an assertion, without which the rest of the piece makes no sense. I would have expected a little evidence to back the assertion up... How, exactly, would you expect the OP to present evidence of Apple not showing interest? What would that "evidence" look like? I can't provide evidence that my golden retriever doesn't have an advanced understanding of quantum mechanics, but I don't think that would get hi…
The parent makes a solid point, and you're employing this logical fallacy, which is why I am down voting you.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule
Say what's wrong, but don't call it "that fallacy". Those "appeals to fallacies" are really what destroys useful Internet discussions.
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#38Microsoft significantly stifled progress on the web for a decade. Now, after WebKit's progress wrestled away Microsoft's dominance and eventually forced Microsoft to spend years trying to catch up, Microsoft wants everyone to get out the pitchforks because Apple isn't supporting Microsoft's latest pet standard fast enough.
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are they really? ... It's a Microsoft-backed spec that only Microsoft supports. Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. It seems a bit strange to single out Apple when there are plenty of other vendors also not implementing it. That said , I know very little about the history of mobile browser development; have Apple historically dragged their feet on mobile Safari?
have Apple historically dragged their feet on mobile Safari? Yes. Here's another example: http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B... Every other browser supports IndexedDB for years, then Apple finally releases support for it and it's completely broken in multiple unfathomably bizarre ways. Still hasn't been fixed.
That's hardly exclusive to Safari. IndexedDB seems to be a buggy mess in all browsers: http://pouchdb.com/2014/10/26/10-things-i-learned-from-readi...
Re: Is Apple stifling progress in Web standards?
#40How is this from Google... "If we had Apple on board with PE, we’d still be on board too." ... anything else but a lame excuse? It's deeply unfortunate that Apple won't budge on this because I think PE is a step in the right direction, but Google using Apple as a crutch is just as ridiculous.
The author is cherrypicking here. See what Google actually said:
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=162757#c...
They make a compelling technical and business argument against it; a reason the author acknowledges and dismisses because doesn't align with his thesis.