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Tired of Safari

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Re: Tired of Safari

#61

Post by jfb »

QuantumRoar wrote: post #59
jfb wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or let me ask another way: Is there a reason to prefer MathML over using SVGs created with the LaTeX rendering engine? Accessibility?

Is it? Doesn't Wikipedia actually put the source code of the LaTeX equation into the alt attribute? That's what I did. I'm not an expert on accessibility but I thought that this is the way to go...?

Dunno. It was a naive stab in the dark; as long as you're actually updating the alt attribute, you're likely doing better here than 99% of the web.

Re: Tired of Safari

#62

Post by etchalon »

bonn1 wrote: post #58
experimental- wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model); flexbox of course offers much more than that. Flexbox may be finalized and unchangeable, if only because so many browsers already support it unprefixed (as support for such properties is almost never removed) – however, like much of the CSS3, flexible box model is not yet a W3C Recommendation, and is, in theory at least, subject to change. With…

> Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model) But not with divs which are more common

…so you use table display rules on the divs?

Re: Tired of Safari

#63

Post by panzi »

tuananh wrote: post #4

> Sponsored by IE. Just saying.

While their browser really is subpar, Microsoft did contribute some important technologies to the web. E.g. AJAX (XMLHttpRequest) and (the precursor to) HTML5 Drag and Drop.

Re: Tired of Safari

#64

Post by JohnTHaller »

0x0 wrote: post #2

(Mobile) Safari is well under way to become the new IE6, especially for older iOS devices that do not receive further updates. :(

But, just like on Windows, you can install an alternative brows... oh... right.

Re: Tired of Safari

#65

Post by benjaminjackman »

falcolas wrote: post #34
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple only has finite resources, too. I doubt WKWebView is neglected, they may just be focussing on fixing something else.

> Apple only has finite resources, too. Apple's finite is larger than every other company out there (to quote an article from earlier this week). I'm pretty sure that any issues Safari is encountering is not due to Apple reaching a "finite" limit of any kind. EDIT: Many of your responses posit Apple as some kind of underdog, struggling to make it in this industry. Given Apple's size and talent, this viewpoint is all…

I believe politics is the reason here too, their strategy appears to be to hinder the browser on their iOS platform to encourage native app development which locks developers into their platform which then locks users of those developers' software into their platform.

This is demonstrated by making certain features of application development on their devices only accessible by writing native software.

The simple workaround would be to write your own browser and put it on their platform. That is expressly verboten or else I'd already be using an iPhone running Firefox, instead I use and android that runs firefox and which has extensions since it's what it's users want vs what the payers of the browsers developers salaries want.

So the strategy MS used to buy years of revenue for win+office was to bundle a default browser to control the web platform and strategically hinder it whenever it threatened their core income centers. The default opt-out required momentum plus the fact that netscape did themselves no favors led to a dark age of web platform innovation as MS corruptly controlled the space and acted as negligent stewards.

What is totally insane to me is that a large portion of the Microsoft anti-trust trial revolved around them simply providing a default browser, it is hard to imagine even they would have blocked netscape software from running on their platform outright.

And yet here we are 15 years later and the iOS platform is doing just that, Apple is embracing this Microsoft strategy and extending it to a whole new level by flat out banning 3rd party browsers and so we all run the risk of having this great renaissance in browser application innovation extinguished into a second dark age.

Re: Tired of Safari

#66

Post by JohnTHaller »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #30
matthewmacleod wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit That's a really pedantic objection — prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished i…

Apple only has finite resources, too. I doubt WKWebView is neglected, they may just be focussing on fixing something else.

Apple has more cash on hand than Google and Microsoft combined. If they wanted to put resources into it, they could.

Re: Tired of Safari

#67

Post by emehrkay »

Interesting twist in this article. I've seen a lot of praise for his writing style (inverted pyramid) on HN, but that Google portion came out of nowhere. He is understandably upset that Apple is slowing down progress, but doesn't seem as upset that Google is doing the same thing.

Re: Tired of Safari

#68

Post by dragonwriter »

QuantumRoar wrote: post #49
bluerobotcat wrote: post #41

Meanwhile Chrome and IE still don't support MathML. Now that is annoying.

Is MathML actually widely used? I can't believe anyone would really want to use something else than the LaTeX stuff for typesetting formulas. There's nothing as pretty as LaTeX for that. Recently I wrote a small tool that enables me to write LaTeX code directly in HTML and the tool then renders the LaTeX code in PDF, converts it to SVG and places an appropriate img-tag with the reference to the generated SVG. I was u…

> Or let me ask another way: Is there a reason to prefer MathML over using SVGs created with the LaTeX rendering engine?

At least for MathML "Content Markup", it is semantic rather than presentational, so as well as being rendered as an equation, it could, in principal, be usefully processed in other ways.

Re: Tired of Safari

#69

Post by [deleted] »

QuantumRoar wrote: post #49
bluerobotcat wrote: post #41

Meanwhile Chrome and IE still don't support MathML. Now that is annoying.

Is MathML actually widely used? I can't believe anyone would really want to use something else than the LaTeX stuff for typesetting formulas. There's nothing as pretty as LaTeX for that. Recently I wrote a small tool that enables me to write LaTeX code directly in HTML and the tool then renders the LaTeX code in PDF, converts it to SVG and places an appropriate img-tag with the reference to the generated SVG. I was u…

[deleted]

Re: Tired of Safari

#70

Post by freshyill »

experimental- wrote: post #56
bonn1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. No reason to get emotional. > That's a really pedantic objection — Pedantic? Positioning elements is the most important feature of a layout system and CSS is totally broken in this regards, just try to vertical center something. Flexbox is godsend and finalized—every vendor removed the prefix. Wondering who is pedantic. > Apple could easily just not…

Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model); flexbox of course offers much more than that. Flexbox may be finalized and unchangeable, if only because so many browsers already support it unprefixed (as support for such properties is almost never removed) – however, like much of the CSS3, flexible box model is not yet a W3C Recommendation, and is, in theory at least, subject to change. With…

Who is just prefixing stuff for Webkit? Mixin libraries have been pretty standard for at least three years, and now Autoprefixer is starting to do the heavy lifting.

People only initially prefixed for Webkit because webkit was the only browser that had a lot of these properties. The problem was that nobody went back and updated their prefixes, which really only further illustrates one of the big problems with the whole idea of vendor prefixes.

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