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Tired of Safari

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Re: Tired of Safari

#51

Post by ebbv »

I was really on board with this article until I got to this:

> Although he is right in a literal sense, I do not think we should exaggerate the problem. Clueless web devs will be clueless (and they’re mostly blinded by iFever anyway)

So the author is saying that most clueless devs are rabid Apple fans? This is so ridiculous to the point of doing nothing but making the author look bad.

Yes, Apple is behaving badly with regards to this spec. All large companies have behaved badly with regard to Open Web Standards at one point or another. Let's pressure Apple to get on board with the Open Standard just like we have to pressure all other companies who are on the wrong side of this battle. It's not the first time it won't be the last time.

Taking it personally is not productive.

Re: Tired of Safari

#52

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #29
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it's intentional malice. I think it's just Apple's engineers being spread too thin. Before Blink, they had Google's manpower also helping them. Now that's gone. Flexbox will come, it'll just take Apple a while to implement it.

Flexbox will come, it'll just take Apple a while to implement it. Flexbox is already fully implemented in Safari and has been since 6.1. The only difference is the use of a prefix.

Wait, so why are people complaining, then? It can be unprefixed when it is finished, right?

Re: Tired of Safari

#53

Post by teamhappy »

melling wrote: post #13
thisjepisje wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unique to mobile devices either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

And desktops. IE8 still has almost 20% market share. https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr... XP looks like it will be with us long after people have upgraded to newer iPhones.

IE 8 has less than 5% in pretty much every other statistic.

http://www.w3counter.com/trends

http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-browser-ww-monthly-201401...

https://www.stetic.com/market-share/browser/

http://clicky.com/marketshare/global/web-browsers/versions/

Re: Tired of Safari

#55

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

[deleted] wrote: post #37
streptomycin wrote: post #32

Another example: they ignored IndexedDB for a couple years after every other major browser implemented it. Then they finally got around to releasing a version of Safari with IndexedDB support... and it's just hilariously broken in so many ways http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B... I literally cannot fathom how such a horribly buggy release could be made in good faith. It's like nobody even t…

[deleted]

Apple supports USB 3.0, and Thunderbolt is just an extension of the DisplayPort standard.

Re: Tired of Safari

#56

Post by experimental- »

bonn1 wrote: post #40
matthewmacleod wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit That's a really pedantic objection — prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished i…

> ... the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. No reason to get emotional. > That's a really pedantic objection — Pedantic? Positioning elements is the most important feature of a layout system and CSS is totally broken in this regards, just try to vertical center something. Flexbox is godsend and finalized—every vendor removed the prefix. Wondering who is pedantic. > Apple could easily just not…

Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model); flexbox of course offers much more than that. Flexbox may be finalized and unchangeable, if only because so many browsers already support it unprefixed (as support for such properties is almost never removed) – however, like much of the CSS3, flexible box model is not yet a W3C Recommendation, and is, in theory at least, subject to change. With proper tools, a prefix here and there is not a huge burden.

The reason why many browsers rush to unprefix CSS3 is not that it's perfect, but because of the lazy web developers who only prefix stuff for WebKit. This may or may not bite the community in the future.

Re: Tired of Safari

#57

Post by jfb »

QuantumRoar wrote: post #49
bluerobotcat wrote: post #41

Meanwhile Chrome and IE still don't support MathML. Now that is annoying.

Is MathML actually widely used? I can't believe anyone would really want to use something else than the LaTeX stuff for typesetting formulas. There's nothing as pretty as LaTeX for that. Recently I wrote a small tool that enables me to write LaTeX code directly in HTML and the tool then renders the LaTeX code in PDF, converts it to SVG and places an appropriate img-tag with the reference to the generated SVG. I was u…

Or let me ask another way: Is there a reason to prefer MathML over using SVGs created with the LaTeX rendering engine?

Accessibility?

Re: Tired of Safari

#58

Post by bonn1 »

experimental- wrote: post #56
bonn1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. No reason to get emotional. > That's a really pedantic objection — Pedantic? Positioning elements is the most important feature of a layout system and CSS is totally broken in this regards, just try to vertical center something. Flexbox is godsend and finalized—every vendor removed the prefix. Wondering who is pedantic. > Apple could easily just not…

Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model); flexbox of course offers much more than that. Flexbox may be finalized and unchangeable, if only because so many browsers already support it unprefixed (as support for such properties is almost never removed) – however, like much of the CSS3, flexible box model is not yet a W3C Recommendation, and is, in theory at least, subject to change. With…

> Vertical centering has been relatively easy since CSS 2.1 (Table model)

But not with divs which are more common

Re: Tired of Safari

#59

Post by QuantumRoar »

jfb wrote: post #57
QuantumRoar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is MathML actually widely used? I can't believe anyone would really want to use something else than the LaTeX stuff for typesetting formulas. There's nothing as pretty as LaTeX for that. Recently I wrote a small tool that enables me to write LaTeX code directly in HTML and the tool then renders the LaTeX code in PDF, converts it to SVG and places an appropriate img-tag with the reference to the generated SVG. I was u…

Or let me ask another way: Is there a reason to prefer MathML over using SVGs created with the LaTeX rendering engine? Accessibility?

Is it? Doesn't Wikipedia actually put the source code of the LaTeX equation into the alt attribute? That's what I did. I'm not an expert on accessibility but I thought that this is the way to go...?

Re: Tired of Safari

#60

Post by pjmlp »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #30
matthewmacleod wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit That's a really pedantic objection — prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished i…

Apple only has finite resources, too. I doubt WKWebView is neglected, they may just be focussing on fixing something else.

I guess a lot of companies out there would like to have Apple's finite resources, given their profits.
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