Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely • Hacker News Board

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#41

Post by cheatsheet » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:01 PM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #24

cheatsheet wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> provably private citation?

http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/74339/dwork_tamc.pdf They define the mathematical guarantees on privacy, which are computational guarantees against a polynomial-time adversary trying to distinguish between the analyses of two databases that differ in a single record. I.e., nobody can reasonably tell whether your information is included in the analysis.

I am not particularly looking for a debate today; but this seems to be a disagreement of terms when using the word "provable". Just because a polynomial time algorithm can not be constructed to distinguish a single record does not mean private information can not be derived.

I still would prefer a choice in the matter - a required small check box that says "record my data" or "do not record my data" XOR "erase my data". The term 'reasonably' has a very different meaning to me (assuming many unknowns in the future) over the long term.

It is either that, or people should literally stop making such a hard line distinguishing person A from person B. If the data is going to be used to make an inference from the collective to the individual, and it doesn't matter whether my data is included or not, well, shrug and thumbs up. It really depends on the context of the application. Does it determine whether my imaginary future children get to go to college or not?

The problem with data and private organizations is that we do not know what the data analysis is being used for, and as private citizens we do not have any control over how that data is mathematically reasoned about and qualitatively assessed aside from forging the data itself it (garbage in, garbage out).

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#42

Post by hackuser » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:05 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #18

And there are indeed a few solutions that actually grant you partial relief from the pains of online tracking. First, switch your search engine, email and other major services where your personal information is heavily tracked to good private alternatives. Second, add EFF’s HTTPS Everywhere plugin to your browser, which will encrypt web site connections where possible. Third, add EFF’s Privacy Badger plugin to your b…

Try RequestPolicy. It blocks all requests to domains other than the host's, unless you whitelist them. It comes with optional whitelists you can use for popular sites.

On one hand, it's cumbersome, requiring you to whitelist some requests and reload when you visit a new webpage (most sites require a CDN at least). On the other, it's easy to use and good security.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#43

Post by schoen » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

yegg wrote: post #10

antr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just read Gabriel's post, and I pretty much agree (and do) with what he says. Due to these shared believes I've been using DDG quite a bit, I even deleted the Google search app from my phone, and instead been using DDG's iOS app as my default mobile search engine. However, every time I use DDG it hurts a bit. The quality of the results are very far behind from that of Google's. I many times end up doing a Google se…

Specific examples you're willing to share really help us improve. Feel free to send them to us at inbound at duckduckgo.

I found DDG commonly does worse than Google on long natural-language questions, especially ones that are mainly made up of common words, and also seems to have more trouble than Google with automatically splitting queries into relevant noun phrases (like if a query included "vegetarian restaurant new york", I expect Google more reliably to decompose that into (vegetarian restaurant) (new york) than DDG).

But I'll keep an eye out and actually write down particular queries where I see these phenomena, and send them along.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#44

Post by zipperhead » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:12 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #36

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #18

And there are indeed a few solutions that actually grant you partial relief from the pains of online tracking. First, switch your search engine, email and other major services where your personal information is heavily tracked to good private alternatives. Second, add EFF’s HTTPS Everywhere plugin to your browser, which will encrypt web site connections where possible. Third, add EFF’s Privacy Badger plugin to your b…

I have personally found that a hosts file can reduce the need for a bunch of those addons - it can block not only ads, but also many forms of tracking. I've found it very refreshing when surfing the web. For reference, I use: http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/

I've thought of using hosts file vs. plugins but have never really made the switch. I'm a bit concerned that I'll run into cases like a website is broken due to a hosts file setting, and I can't easily bypass it like I can with a plugin. Do you ever run into situations like this?

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#45

Post by belorn » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:12 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #6

People are willing to trade personally-identifiable information for a Snickers bar.* Until and unless that changes, privacy doesn't have sufficient value to change the status quo very much. *Really, they'll even trade it for intangible gold. http://candycrushgametactics.com/get-free-gold-bars-in-candy...

I would like to see a experiment where the test subject are informed that the information will be sold afterward. Are people then willing to trade personally-identifiable information for a Snickers bar?

Addition parameters that would be interesting: Inform that the information is worth more/less than the Snickers bar, or inform that "the government" will have free access to the information.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#46

Post by smhenderson » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

justcommenting wrote: post #2

I've also noticed the quality of DuckDuckGo search results has been steadily improving, especially over the past year. I would encourage anyone who tried it and went back to another search engine to consider giving DuckDuckGo another shot--you may be pleasantly surprised!

While also not as good as google from a result standpoint I have been using ixquick.com for several years now and have seen a steady improvement in it's results as well.

They claim to be "the world's most private search engine: https://ixquick.com/eng/protect-privacy.html?

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#47

Post by rom16384 » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

yegg wrote: post #10

antr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just read Gabriel's post, and I pretty much agree (and do) with what he says. Due to these shared believes I've been using DDG quite a bit, I even deleted the Google search app from my phone, and instead been using DDG's iOS app as my default mobile search engine. However, every time I use DDG it hurts a bit. The quality of the results are very far behind from that of Google's. I many times end up doing a Google se…

Specific examples you're willing to share really help us improve. Feel free to send them to us at inbound at duckduckgo.

I find the auto-correct to be over-zealous. If DDG decides that what I've entered is a typo, It will only show me results for the "corrected" word, so I'll have to quote uncommonly searched words. This usually happens when the search is similar to another one that is much more common.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#48

Post by hackuser » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

lnanek2 wrote: post #27

Honestly, I kind of prefer the new AT&T solution where they charge you ~$30 more to do nothing with your data. If paranoid people want this, then by all means, let them pay for it.

* Should privacy only be available to people who can afford $360/yr?

* What good is confidentiality on AT&T, when everyone else still is tracking you (websites, cellular provider, electric utility, car manufacturer, CCTV operators, etc.).

* Should privacy require you to pay every one of those businesses $360/year?

Also, AT&T easily could buy the the information they are forgoing from a third party, and for much less than $360/year/customer.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#49

Post by schimmy_changa » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:27 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #25

fixermark wrote: post #6

People are willing to trade personally-identifiable information for a Snickers bar.* Until and unless that changes, privacy doesn't have sufficient value to change the status quo very much. *Really, they'll even trade it for intangible gold. http://candycrushgametactics.com/get-free-gold-bars-in-candy...

Trading for a snickers bar is the default. How can I stop the default and who gets to decide what my punishment is if I do? Let's say google offers some kind of privacy plan, which is 100% outside of their interests. Do you think they'll give me honest pricing if I opted out of all their tracking? Lets say they actually make $15 off me annually via tracking. What would they charge me to not be spied on? It sure as he…

I think we should have a law where any service which is supported by advertising / data selling also have a paid opt-out feature. If I want to pay Google $100/year for email without ads or trackers, I should be able to do that.

Sure, pricing will probably be set way too high by the companies at first, but even making that explicit tradeoff and the option to purchase will help show consumers that privacy IS valuable.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#50

Post by hackuser » Tue, Feb 24, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

dmschulman wrote: post #32

TeMPOraL wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "anonymized data", there is only "not enough context" and "I need more computing power!". It's important to understand what one is up against when fighting for privacy. Incidentally, that's part of the reason why I'm having this feeling, that the future is a choice - "privacy or progress, pick one". Because if you really, really care about privacy and anonymity, the sheer amount of…

Yeah it's tricky because online consumer tracking is just the evolution of a methodology which has been in place for a long time (like supermarket club cards you mentioned). Working in marketing gives you a sense of just how pervasive it is, what tricks are at one's disposal, and I think an individual company should be allowed to know how consumers use and value a their products, but being able to sell that informati…

> I don't believe any branch of the US government has enough of an understanding with tech issues to pass effective regulation. I hope to be proven wrong though.

For what it's worth, members of Congress lack in-depth understanding of most things they legislate. Nobody can know that much about so many topics, almost anything under the Sun (and for NASA legislation, beyond thhe Sun too).

Perhaps we need an IT regulator, who develops expertise. That's how many industries are regulated.