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Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

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Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#21

Post by ashark »

fixermark wrote: post #6

People are willing to trade personally-identifiable information for a Snickers bar.* Until and unless that changes, privacy doesn't have sufficient value to change the status quo very much. *Really, they'll even trade it for intangible gold. http://candycrushgametactics.com/get-free-gold-bars-in-candy...

It won't change. There's no way the average person is going to spend the kind of time and effort it would take to fight the pervasive privacy violations we're seeing now. Even if they all say they want better privacy, there's only so much stuff a person can keep up with / so many hours in a day. The market doesn't cater to what we want, it caters to what we have time to understand and the willpower to act on and, outside that very slim set of things, what is most profitable (e.g. selling our data).

Coordination problems. Coordination problems as far as the eye can see.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#22

Post by rqebmm »

j2kun wrote: post #15

There is a possibility to share statistical analysis of data privately. This is the subfield of computer science known as differential privacy, and I bet companies just looking for trend data (not specific targeting) would be able to benefit from user data without compromising user privacy. In other words, there are good and bad ways to use user data, some of the good ones are provably private, and we shouldn't rule…

>we shouldn't rule out all data sharing as inherently evil.

I agree. However, that's going to be the knee-jerk reaction for a while precisely because huge entities like Google, NSA, AT&T, Verizon, etc have been doing that data sharing while doing an abysmal job of notifying users about what was happening. Eventually I think we'll settle into a happy medium, but we're in the pushback phase at the moment.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#23

Post by TeMPOraL »

dmschulman wrote: post #9

The myth of "partially anonymize" data is infuriating. As an academic exercise I've begun to pore over Privacy Policies for web new services I find, specifically how my account info will be used with third parties. No new consumer oriented web product in their right mind would advertise "we monetize your data with third parties", but they all include language in their Privacy Policies about sharing "partially anonymi…

Exactly. There is no such thing as "anonymized data", there is only "not enough context" and "I need more computing power!". It's important to understand what one is up against when fighting for privacy.

Incidentally, that's part of the reason why I'm having this feeling, that the future is a choice - "privacy or progress, pick one". Because if you really, really care about privacy and anonymity, the sheer amount of otherwise very useful data you'd have to forbid processing and sharing of is staggering. Take for instance shopping. Should we prevent retailers from collecting transactions data? Should we prevent them from installing CCTVs to deter theft? If neither, then how we're going to prevent them from correlating those two sets to keep a profile on you?

(yes, I know retailers now use credit card data and club cards for that - but say one or both data sets will become unavailable - then they'll start looking for alternatives)

It's a serious question. I don't see reducing data collection as a viable strategy, and I'm not sure if we can present entities from sharing data sets with each other. I'd like to know what could be the long-term privacy perserving strategy that doesn't require us to roll back the computer age.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#24

Post by j2kun »

cheatsheet wrote: post #20
j2kun wrote: post #15

There is a possibility to share statistical analysis of data privately. This is the subfield of computer science known as differential privacy, and I bet companies just looking for trend data (not specific targeting) would be able to benefit from user data without compromising user privacy. In other words, there are good and bad ways to use user data, some of the good ones are provably private, and we shouldn't rule…

> provably private citation?

http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/74339/dwork_tamc.pdf

They define the mathematical guarantees on privacy, which are computational guarantees against a polynomial-time adversary trying to distinguish between the analyses of two databases that differ in a single record. I.e., nobody can reasonably tell whether your information is included in the analysis.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#25

Post by drzaiusapelord »

fixermark wrote: post #6

People are willing to trade personally-identifiable information for a Snickers bar.* Until and unless that changes, privacy doesn't have sufficient value to change the status quo very much. *Really, they'll even trade it for intangible gold. http://candycrushgametactics.com/get-free-gold-bars-in-candy...

Trading for a snickers bar is the default. How can I stop the default and who gets to decide what my punishment is if I do?

Let's say google offers some kind of privacy plan, which is 100% outside of their interests. Do you think they'll give me honest pricing if I opted out of all their tracking? Lets say they actually make $15 off me annually via tracking. What would they charge me to not be spied on? It sure as hell won't be $15.

The problem is we're not being offered a fair value in the beginning when we get into a relationship with these companies. Cloud providers are throwing snickers bars at me and not offering to stop. When I do say I don't want them, I'm hit with punitive pricing. Look at AT&T's gigapower charge to not be spied on. Its like $40 a month. Sorry, but I doubt anyone is making $40 a month from someone like me who almost never clicks on ads and whose information can't be that valuable. If advertisers are paying AT&T $40 a month to see how long I'm on reddit, then the whole system is well... fucked.

It seems to me that cloud providers and ISPs want their cake and to eat it to. They're double-dipping. I'm still paying somehow, even if its indirectly. I bought $100 worth of apps and movie rentals last quarter via my android device. They sure as hell weren't free. Not only am I subject to market pricing on these items, not to mention my hefty phone bill, I also am being spied on? Where exactly is the 'free' where the products monetize themselves via app store purchases and rentals? VUDU and On Demand charge the exact same amount for these rentals.

This narrative that customers won't pay for things is asinine. We're constantly paying for things.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#26

Post by joosters »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #18

And there are indeed a few solutions that actually grant you partial relief from the pains of online tracking. First, switch your search engine, email and other major services where your personal information is heavily tracked to good private alternatives. Second, add EFF’s HTTPS Everywhere plugin to your browser, which will encrypt web site connections where possible. Third, add EFF’s Privacy Badger plugin to your b…

There is a chance that some extensions will interfere with each other. For instance, Ghostery mentions this on their options page:

Warning! When combined with other cookie monitoring addons such as Beef Taco, Cookie Monster, and Google Opt-Out, this feature can cause unresponsive script errors. If you experience this error, please try disabling this feature or conflicting addons.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#28

Post by angersock »

drdaeman wrote: post #19
angersock wrote: post #14

The annoying thing is that, even if we prevent them from harvesting data on us, there's nothing to prevent them from convincing our friends/parents/coworkers from sharing that information on our behalves.

Except for the lack of data. Don't share things you consider private (and that are indeed private and not just things you don't want to expose but can't really do so, like your own face) with those who you don't trust. This is the most secure approach among all possibilities.

So, consider "Hey, tomorrow is angersock's 34th birthday! We're organizing a surprise party in his hometown of jonestown!".

Now, they've given away my age, birthdate, and where I was born. That's the sort of information that, while private and something I don't give away, they know and give away without thinking.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#29

Post by TruthWillFree »

lnanek2 wrote: post #27

Honestly, I kind of prefer the new AT&T solution where they charge you ~$30 more to do nothing with your data. If paranoid people want this, then by all means, let them pay for it.

You trust them? How do you know this just makes you more suspicious and gives them more of an illogical basis for placing you under increased surveillance.

Re: Privacy is at a crossroads. Choose wisely

#30

Post by fixermark »

TruthWillFree wrote: post #29
lnanek2 wrote: post #27

Honestly, I kind of prefer the new AT&T solution where they charge you ~$30 more to do nothing with your data. If paranoid people want this, then by all means, let them pay for it.

You trust them? How do you know this just makes you more suspicious and gives them more of an illogical basis for placing you under increased surveillance.

Sure I trust them. The moment it's discovered that they've failed to hold up their end of the bargain, they're out $30 x some significant percentage of the users of that service per month. That's not chump change (to say nothing of the potential class action lawsuit for utterly failing to hold up a contract while continuing to charge customers for the services stipulated in said contract).
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