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EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

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Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#31
post #23

Most of these are really excellent, such as the suggestion to require example code for claims implemented in software, to allow the regional courts of appeal to decide patent cases, and to defer most discovery until after claim construction. On the other hand, some of the suggestions simply beg the question. What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?" Software is eating the world--mechanisms that would have in t…

> What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?"

Patent trolls are Non Practicing Entities who file lawsuits against companies who are actually practicing an invention. The problem though is that when the United States was created, it chose to drop the requirement to practice for a very specific reason: it discriminates against the poor and middle class, who might be smart enough to invent some world changing technology but have no way to raise millions of dollars to produce their invention. Such a requirement was seen as anti-democratic by the founding fathers, and historically NPEs have actually made huge contributions to human knowledge... E.g. the person who invented the computer didn't have the money to actually go out and build one.

There certainly have come to be a lot of abuses with the current system that need to fixed. But it's worth keeping in mind that while Mark Cuban himself might not be a bad guy, the reason the founding fathers chose to let people file patents without having to build out the invention was precisely to protect us from people like him, who could come in and just steal someone else's efforts wholesale because they happen to have more money. And in the past couple years, a lot of law professors who were originally against NPEs have now reversed their opinions and acknowledged that the situation is more complex than they had originally believed.

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#32

Man - this guy might have the best title I've seen in a while: Daniel Nazer Staff Attorney and the Mark Cuban Chair to Eliminate Stupid Patents Electronic Frontier Foundation daniel@eff.org

That makes it look like the EFF has been bought and paid for by Mark Cuban.

Who's Mark Cuban? See Wikipedia.[1] His expertise is in promoting sales-oriented companies and getting them acquired by bigger companies. His first big deal was selling Micro Solutions (a reseller of boxed software) to CompuServ. Then he got into sports webcasting ("broadcast.com") and sold that to Yahoo during the first dot-com boom. In each case, someone else created the content, and Cuban marked it up and resold it. That's his business model.

Wikipedia on "broadcast.com": "The record IPO made instant financial successes out of the company's employees through stock options, making 100 employees millionaires on paper (although most of them were unable to exercise their options and sell their shares before the stock price dropped) and founders Cuban and Wagner billionaires."

So that's who's behind this.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#33
Let's look at the EFF's proposals:

1. The patent term should be shorter for software patents. It should last no more than five years from the application date.

Software doesn't move that fast. The Internet is now over 30 years old. It's been 61 years since the first FORTRAN compiler. At various times in the past, aircraft technology and radio technology advanced at least as fast as computer technology. Computing is not special; it's just a currently active area.

2. If the patent is invalid or there’s no infringement, patent trolls should have to pay the winning party’s legal fees.

This provides a way for big companies to intimidate patent holders. A small patent holder can be threatened with huge legal bills. The odds of winning a patent infringement lawsuit are about 40-50%, and even if you have a strong patent, it's common to lose.

3. Patent applicants should be required to provide an example of running software code for each claim in the patent.

The USPTO has the right to demand a working model if they are not convinced the patented concept would work. At one time, they did. (Patent models are cute collectables now.) Current USPTO policy is to demand a working model only for things such as antigravity machines or perpetual motion machines. Unworkable patents do not seem to be a problem in the software area.

4. Infringers should avoid liability if they independently arrive at the patented invention.

Absolutely not. Infringers will routinely lie about that, claiming independent invention, and it's really tough to prove intent. There's a provision in current law which allows for a defense of independent invention for, I think, one year after patent issue. That's sufficient.

5. Patents and licenses should be public upon filing. Patent owners should be required to keep their public ownership records up-to-date.

Patent applications are already published at the 18 month mark.

6. The law should do more to limit damages so that a patent owner can’t collect millions if the patent represented only a tiny fraction of a defendant’s product.

A patent is the right to say "no, you can't do that". Infringers aren't entitled to practice the patent at all and then just pay damages if they lose.

7. Congress should commission a study and hold hearings to examine whether software patents actually benefit our economy at all.

The purpose of the patent system isn't to "benefit the economy". It's to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts", according to the Constitution.

As for "patent trolls", according to the EFF's own database[1], there are only a few real "patent trolls", with one firm in Texas being the big generator of threatening letters. The top firm has 15 letters in the EFF's database. (They've sent more.) There are a very small number of patents being "trolled".

The EFF was arguing for this in the previous session of Congress. Once it came out how weak their case was, the legislation was dropped.

[1] https://trollingeffects.org/lawfirms

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#34
post #23

Most of these are really excellent, such as the suggestion to require example code for claims implemented in software, to allow the regional courts of appeal to decide patent cases, and to defer most discovery until after claim construction. On the other hand, some of the suggestions simply beg the question. What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?" Software is eating the world--mechanisms that would have in t…

> What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?" Defining a software patent is not hard. A patent is a software patent if you can infringe it entirely with software. Software can't infringe a patent for a cholesterol drug or a light bulb, so those aren't software patents. > I look at the tech industry, and see one where product companies rather than hard R&D companies make all the money. The folks at SRI who invent…

> Defining a software patent is not hard. A patent is a software patent if you can infringe it entirely with software. Software can't infringe a patent for a cholesterol drug or a light bulb, so those aren't software patents.

Presumably, by "entirely with software" you mean "entirely with software running on a [hardware] comupter." And that's why so many companies oppose eliminating "software patents" even though it seems like a no-brainer to many.[1] We're not just talking about your typical troll patent, but e.g. techniques for processing signals from MRI machines. We're talking about the software behind self-driving cars.

> But if you can't price patents accurately then you don't have a functioning market, which is fundamentally why we end up with such poor quality patents in software -

Your right, this is a huge problem. It would be a lot better to have fewer, stronger patents with well-defined boundaries.

> If you want less vertical integration then what you want is more modular systems, open standards and free software. Which is the opposite of what software patents do.

Your two examples support my point. I think it's underestimated how much we owe the open PC ecosystem to the fact that Microsoft could rely on strong copyright, enabling them to make money selling an OS. If it wasn't practical to protect the OS as a separate product, they would have had a tremendous incentive to get into the PC business.[2]

As for open standards, most of our hardware standards are built on patent pools. They enable companies to cooperate to build standards, while keeping out freeloaders.

[1] http://partnershipforamericaninnovation.org

[2] We have more open source than ever in the hands of ordinary consumers, but only because software has taken a backseat to hardware and services that can be more easily monetized without the worry of piracy. Everyone uses web browsers, but there's no money in building web browsers. Instead, the two major engines are developed by a cell phone company and an advertising company.

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#35
post #2

The solution to the patent system is to abolish it. The whole thing. Seek compensation for the act of coming up with innovative ideas instead of trying to apply artificial state granted monopolies to them after the fact. It would be so much healthier to have money pumped into the R&D of common utility goods for the sake of the innovation than to continue to perpetuate patent warfare while trying to attach a flawed pr…

The usual retort to that is "so you don't want to cure cancer then". The pharmaceutical industry very strongly depends on patents, and would easily be able to convince government through money and "cancer" not to abolish it. The practical thing then is to come up with a solution for pharma, and then abolish the patent system.

The patent system is very badly designed for pharma. The cost in pharma is in the clinical trials, but the patent is awarded for creating the drug -- long before the trials.

Rather than being a reward for brining an innovation to market, the monopoly (patent) is awarded long before the bulk of the work has been done. No reward is offered in the patent system for doing the hard and expensive part -- proving efficacy and safety. But the patent means that even if you choose not to spend the money to bring it to market, nobody else is allowed to.

Something like 95% of pharmaceuticals fail to be effective and safe. In other words, 95% of pharmaceutical patents are for inventions that ultimately don't work.

"A patent for something that does not work" ought not be allowed -- the pharmaceutical patent should only be awarded after efficacy and safety has been proved (incentivising the hard part).

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#36

This might be naive on my part but it seems like we could help the situation quite a bit, at least for software patents, by just reducing the amount of time for which new software patents are valid. It's simple, easy to understand and implement, more consistent with the speed at which the software market evolves, would reduce the perceived value of bogus patents making trolling less likely, free up technology sooner…

It's not a good idea. Ideally rights should be for as long as the life of the inventor. Instead of a cut-off time, I've heard people espouse a system of valuation and, in some cases, taxation, so that over time a patent becomes increasingly affordable for others to buy out and put into the public domain.

I had an idea similar to this where when filing for a patent you include an estimate of R&D costs. If the patent is awarded then its lifetime is related to how long it takes to get a reasonable payout on the R&D investment.

This way big pharmaceuticals put a couple million into a new drug and they get to profit for a few years. An Apple engineer makes slide to unlock in a couple days and given the number of iphones sold the patent is over quite quickly.

tl;dr a salary cap for patents based on R&D cost

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#37
post #23

Most of these are really excellent, such as the suggestion to require example code for claims implemented in software, to allow the regional courts of appeal to decide patent cases, and to defer most discovery until after claim construction. On the other hand, some of the suggestions simply beg the question. What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?" Software is eating the world--mechanisms that would have in t…

I'm inclined to think of patent reform not as a "cure" for the failing patent system, but simply a palliative measure for everyone's protection during its inevitable decline

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#38
post #23

Most of these are really excellent, such as the suggestion to require example code for claims implemented in software, to allow the regional courts of appeal to decide patent cases, and to defer most discovery until after claim construction. On the other hand, some of the suggestions simply beg the question. What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?" Software is eating the world--mechanisms that would have in t…

> What is a "software patent" or a "patent troll?" Patent trolls are Non Practicing Entities who file lawsuits against companies who are actually practicing an invention. The problem though is that when the United States was created, it chose to drop the requirement to practice for a very specific reason: it discriminates against the poor and middle class, who might be smart enough to invent some world changing techn…

Citation needed. Specifically, the patent office required that inventors submit working models of their inventions until 1880 [1]. That doesn't sound to me like the founding fathers' decision.

Edit: And they still require working models of anything claiming to implement perpetual motion.[2]

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/18/business/18PATE.html?pagew...

[2] http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s706.html

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#39
post #2

The solution to the patent system is to abolish it. The whole thing. Seek compensation for the act of coming up with innovative ideas instead of trying to apply artificial state granted monopolies to them after the fact. It would be so much healthier to have money pumped into the R&D of common utility goods for the sake of the innovation than to continue to perpetuate patent warfare while trying to attach a flawed pr…

The usual retort to that is "so you don't want to cure cancer then". The pharmaceutical industry very strongly depends on patents, and would easily be able to convince government through money and "cancer" not to abolish it. The practical thing then is to come up with a solution for pharma, and then abolish the patent system.

The practical thing then is to come up with a solution for pharma, and then abolish the patent system.

Could pharma companies pay an R&D tax into a shared pool issued as research grants by the NIH, with a quasi-market for allocating research funds? That way non-researching manufacturers of generics still contribute to new drug research -- no freeloading.

Re: EFF Outlines Plan to Fix the Broken Patent System

#40
Honestly, I think the best way to get rid of this nonsense, keeping everyone happy, is to allow patents but to enforce a "profit cap".

Basically, if an entity has invested $X into RND for patent Y, then patent Y should be valid until some $(Z*X) has been earned by the entity. Where Z is some constant; or stepped like tax brackets.

Example: A company develops some new software: it cost $500,000 of Engineering effort. They are awarded a patent. The patent should be valid until that company has earned $5 million (Z=10; ie 1000% ROI).

Example: A company develops some new drug: it cost $5,000,000,000 for RND. They are awarded a patent. The patent should be valid until that company has earned $50 Billion (Z=10; ie 1000% ROI).

I agree it may be hard to prove "amount spent on patent" or "profit earned from patent". However, at least to me, it seems as hard as the IRS auditing a company's taxes, or as hard as auditing a public companies quarterly financial disclosures.

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