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Why the Euro will ultimately fail

maximise.dk

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Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#21

Post by vannevar »

pvaldes wrote: post #20

And then the Spaniard carpenter go out wearing some extra furs and chase some dinosaurs for dinner, END. > Because the Spanish workers aren’t as good as the German at optimising chair-making > This is not necessarily because the spanish workers are lazy Oh, thanks, thanks. You are so kind... Except that the spanish workers are not lazy at all (you can find some lazy workers here, and in Germany of course) this is wha…

I would agree that the characterization is insulting. But the real point is that once a disparity appears, regardless of the cause, it becomes a vicious cycle. And in a dynamic multilateral economy, disparities are virtually guaranteed. Any economic system that relies on relative parity in the participants must have a compensatory mechanism (ie, wealth redistribution) to maintain that parity in the face of the systematic tendency for wealth to flow from the poor to the rich. This is as true for the Eurozone as it is for the NFL here in the States.

Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#22

Post by pvaldes »

mixmax wrote: post #3
nnain wrote: post #2

For a decade until 2008-09, large majority of the economists weren't able to predict how this is going to bite. The southern states were having a ball as they carelessly kept increasing the labour charges and enjoyed a comparatively higher valuation at the cost of nations that have a more professional workforce. I get eerie whenever a country's mood and economy is suddenly booming for no seeming important reason othe…

a lot of young people will start to gravitate towards greener pastures This is already happening. The coffee shops, kiosks and warehouses in Denmark where I'm from are packed with economical refugees from Southern Europe. The sad part is that the ones that leave are probably the most driven ones, and thus the ones the southern countries need in the future.

So your country is full of a lot of new smart, amicable and creative people now easing the ways to South-american markets to you. Well done, Denmark!

I remember when we have here very nice, modest and that can only be called as "elegant" people from Ecuador for example. Not being ironic at all. Hard workers, very responsible and good people.

> The sad part is that the ones that leave are probably the most driven ones, and thus the ones the southern countries need in the future.

The current way of doing things by the euro-kings in Europe will most probably lead to a big chunk of land and economy in many southern european countries ending in the hands and future property of Russia, China or Saudi Arabia I guess... they could easily atract workers as needed. Don' worry by this.

Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#23

Post by [deleted] »

vannevar wrote: post #21
pvaldes wrote: post #20

And then the Spaniard carpenter go out wearing some extra furs and chase some dinosaurs for dinner, END. > Because the Spanish workers aren’t as good as the German at optimising chair-making > This is not necessarily because the spanish workers are lazy Oh, thanks, thanks. You are so kind... Except that the spanish workers are not lazy at all (you can find some lazy workers here, and in Germany of course) this is wha…

I would agree that the characterization is insulting. But the real point is that once a disparity appears, regardless of the cause , it becomes a vicious cycle. And in a dynamic multilateral economy, disparities are virtually guaranteed. Any economic system that relies on relative parity in the participants must have a compensatory mechanism (ie, wealth redistribution) to maintain that parity in the face of the syste…

[deleted]

Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#24

Post by pvaldes »

vannevar wrote: post #21
pvaldes wrote: post #20

And then the Spaniard carpenter go out wearing some extra furs and chase some dinosaurs for dinner, END. > Because the Spanish workers aren’t as good as the German at optimising chair-making > This is not necessarily because the spanish workers are lazy Oh, thanks, thanks. You are so kind... Except that the spanish workers are not lazy at all (you can find some lazy workers here, and in Germany of course) this is wha…

I would agree that the characterization is insulting. But the real point is that once a disparity appears, regardless of the cause , it becomes a vicious cycle. And in a dynamic multilateral economy, disparities are virtually guaranteed. Any economic system that relies on relative parity in the participants must have a compensatory mechanism (ie, wealth redistribution) to maintain that parity in the face of the syste…

> once a disparity appears, regardless of the cause, it becomes a vicious cycle

And that nobody is saying is that austerity measures wrong-by-design, corrupt politics generously feeded and sponsored by "Europe", and national central banks and organisms deliberately not doing the surveillance job what supossedly we had payed them for, are the cause, or at least responsible for a lot of this situation.

And there is also the full speed "burn as many environmental resources and biodiversity as you can" situation in order to be able to pay high fake interests also. Economists are blind. His "I will not spend any money for erradicating those zebra critter mussels in Spain in 2001 (when we could have done this) because the economy..." is currently a mortage of >40 millions of euro/each year for the next generation of europeans. All that they say is that "economy is recovering". Those people should be fired. Right now! Before they can be able to do more damage.

German banks lend lots of money to help some especulators and delinquents continue destroying the coasts and nature of southern Europe, when the pyramidal system crash eventually Greeks and Spaniards workers, that weren't even in the bussiness, are forced to pay the disaster created, for an esotheric reason.

Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#26

Post by fit2rule »

nnain wrote: post #2

For a decade until 2008-09, large majority of the economists weren't able to predict how this is going to bite. The southern states were having a ball as they carelessly kept increasing the labour charges and enjoyed a comparatively higher valuation at the cost of nations that have a more professional workforce. I get eerie whenever a country's mood and economy is suddenly booming for no seeming important reason othe…

>The bad is that European people aren't a single stock, they don't like to be compared to each other, or to be put on similar benchmarks

This needs to change, and it will happen - in spite of statements to the contrary - because young people all over Europe are moving to other countries, the so-called 'greener pastures' - and thus the integration and cultural osmosis is in process. Spanish workers moving to Germany are becoming less Spanish; Romanians moving to Austria, less Romanian. This is a good thing, and will - over time spans of 5..10 years - result in the badly needed cross-pollination. Its very clear in Europe that cultural mores and disciplines which result in prejudice and exclusion need to be abandoned - I see precisely this happening at the youth level, and less so in the middle-age bracket - but such is life.

Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#27

Post by fit2rule »

cylinder wrote: post #4
mixmax wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of young people will start to gravitate towards greener pastures This is already happening. The coffee shops, kiosks and warehouses in Denmark where I'm from are packed with economical refugees from Southern Europe. The sad part is that the ones that leave are probably the most driven ones, and thus the ones the southern countries need in the future.

Well if the whole thing is a union, what does it matter? Americans don't stress about the smartest Floridians heading to New York for work. And there's the problem... you're either a union or you're not. Can't pick and choose which elements of union and sovereignty you want.

These are transitionary days, the lines are being blurred. I would say that the bracket of folks who talk about these issues are not the same as those doing something about it - its far easier for a middle-aged, entrenched worker to get on the Internet and complain about these issues than it is to see the guys who are crossing borders and working in a new culture to break down the typically insular nature of contemporary European life. You can see this internationalization factor at very specific strata - however, as usual, the squeaky wheel gets the grease ..

Re: Why the Euro will ultimately fail

#28

Post by isthisforme »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #16
isthisforme wrote: post #13

There's another much simpler option: Greece can go bankrupt, default on it's loans, and start over without the burden of unrealistic debt keeping them in poverty. It can remain in the Euro and everyone can move forward more - perhaps with more prudent lending standards. Yes, some investors will lose that money. They were happy cashing their cheques when things were going well. Investing is a business with a risk of l…

Forgive me for being blunt, but I get the impression that you knew what comment you'd make before you read the article. The article suggests the problem is systemic. Even if Greece goes bankrupt but stays in the Euro, the core issues have not been solved and the situation will arise again. In a race between efficiency and diversity, the Euro is systematically predisposed towards efficiency (which reduces the scope fo…

I think it's a mistake to assume that fiscal policy and monetary policy need to be linked.

The United States (although the federal government has expanded to a level I hope does not happen in Europe) provides an example. There are many state governments which have a dire financial situation. No one suggests the abandonment of the US dollar over it - it's understood that it's possible to have one group managing fiscal policy with a different group managing monetary policy.

I think the same applies to Europe.

And I actually do think that bankruptcy would solve core issues: a clean slate would allow things to be built a new in a more sustainable way.

It's my understanding that bankruptcy did wonders for New Zealand. It's not a wonderful option, but sometimes it's all that is left. And it's the only way capitalism works.

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