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Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

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Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#161

Post by damoncali »

jrells wrote: post #78
Zelphyr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just bad drivers in general, regardless of our level of intoxication. Texting. Dancing (I see this frequently). The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. I'm of a mind that its actually way too easy to obtain a drivers license in this country. For example; my mother took my uncle to get his drivers license renewed. Why she did is beyond me because he has early stage dementia. He…

I would question the claim that Americans are bad drivers in general. Compared to driving I've seen in other countries (particularly India, China), even the worst drivers I've seen in America aren't so bad. And the worst drivers in America I know personally are not actually Americans but internationals. Maybe we are generally worse compared to other western countries but my experience suggests the prevalence of drivi…

Anyone who thinks Americans drive poorly/without care ought to take a trip to somewhere like Vietnam. Holy crap, that's a free for all.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#162

Post by exprL »

slouch wrote: post #126
gonehome wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a couple of things with this. The legal limit in most of the US (0.08 BAC) is actually pretty high, so you can legally drink and drive. For example at that level a 220lb man can have four (American 1.5oz) shots and hit the road immediately at ~0.7. So most drinking and driving you might have seen probably isn't (at least legally). The second main reason is probably because there is no good mass tran…

> For example at that level a 220lb man can have four (American 1.5oz) shots and hit the road immediately at ~0.7. If you were to test his blood. Breathalyzers work differently and this guy would not pass one.

Can you get hit with a DUI without a blood test result in the U.S.?

Breathalysers pretty much only give largely inaccurate results when you still have alcohol residue in your throat or mouth. If you rinse out or wait a moment, they'll probably fall in line with blood tests.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#163

Post by camhenlin »

mod wrote: post #159
filoeleven wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately there isn't a very reliable test to see if someone is under the influence of anything other than alcohol. I heard a lot of noise almost a decade ago about impairment testing. The idea is not to test for a specific drug, or a specific amount of a drug, but rather to test the ability of the person to react to situations. There isn't a lot of material out there about it, but it was highly praised at the…

It also would presumably discriminate against entire swaths of people (think old folks, potentially disabled drivers, etc). Not that I think anyone incapable of driving should be, but any impairment test would flunk certain groups of 100% sober people working at their best ability (not sleep-drunk, either).

If they're unable to pass the impairment test they shouldn't be driving. If grandpa is too old to drive and can't maintain his lane in traffic anymore, a police officer giving him an impairment test and failing him is not discrimination.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#164

Post by yiyus »

jrells wrote: post #78
Zelphyr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just bad drivers in general, regardless of our level of intoxication. Texting. Dancing (I see this frequently). The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. I'm of a mind that its actually way too easy to obtain a drivers license in this country. For example; my mother took my uncle to get his drivers license renewed. Why she did is beyond me because he has early stage dementia. He…

I would question the claim that Americans are bad drivers in general. Compared to driving I've seen in other countries (particularly India, China), even the worst drivers I've seen in America aren't so bad. And the worst drivers in America I know personally are not actually Americans but internationals. Maybe we are generally worse compared to other western countries but my experience suggests the prevalence of drivi…

I think that it is not that Americans are worse drivers, but bad drivers have more chances of having a car in America. In other places you have more alternatives, and bad drivers usually prefer these other alternatives. In the US, you must drive if you want to move.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#165

Post by mod »

Someone1234 wrote: post #23

I've never been a user, but I do support legalisation. The reason I support it even though I myself wouldn't benefit is: - It is at least as safe as tobacco and alcohol. So even if we leave the question of what is safer on the table, I think most people would agree based on available evidence that it isn't LESS safe than those two, and they're legal. - The "war on drugs" has been a disaster. It has actually hurt econ…

It's my estimate, as a non-user, that someone would drive much better under the influence of marijuana than alcohol, especially at the extremes.

It's also my estimate that many drivers at .08 BAC or under the influence of marijuana are far superior drivers than some other drivers who are 100% sober.

So why isn't the line drawn based on driving ability or driving performance rather than mental state?

I can see some obvious reasons: you can measure BAC and it's pretty hard to objectively measure driving ability. But the point stands--BAC is not a measure of actual driving ability, rather a measure of personal impairment.

Edit: for dumbness.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#166

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

DanBC wrote: post #53
Zelphyr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just bad drivers in general, regardless of our level of intoxication. Texting. Dancing (I see this frequently). The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. I'm of a mind that its actually way too easy to obtain a drivers license in this country. For example; my mother took my uncle to get his drivers license renewed. Why she did is beyond me because he has early stage dementia. He…

> The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. Is this supported by any research? Road traffic accident statistics show too many young people. So, older people might be safer drivers. Of course, there are a few people with dementia or visual impairment who shouldn't be driving but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be t…

Accidents per road mile has to be off the chart. Most of the time the accidents are minor, but not always.

>but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be true.

Ageing impairs one's ability to drive. It's not controversial because our bodies break as we age. Everyone knows that.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#167

Post by lkbm »

mariodiana wrote: post #135
gonehome wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a couple of things with this. The legal limit in most of the US (0.08 BAC) is actually pretty high, so you can legally drink and drive. For example at that level a 220lb man can have four (American 1.5oz) shots and hit the road immediately at ~0.7. So most drinking and driving you might have seen probably isn't (at least legally). The second main reason is probably because there is no good mass tran…

A BAC of 0.08 is not high at all. "Consider the 2000 federal law that pressured states to lower their BAC standards to 0.08 from 0.10. At the time, the average BAC in alcohol-related fatal accidents was 0.17, and two-thirds of such accidents involved drivers with BACs of 0.14 or higher." http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/11/abolish-drunk-driving-...

Percentage of people in accidents at a given BAC is the wrong stat to look at. You need to look at _chance of accident_ at a given BAC, v. at 0 BAC.

And at 0.08, you're chance of accident is 393% of that when sober. 0.07 is 322%.[1]

1. http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nti/pdf/812117-Drug_and_Alc... (Table 8)

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#168

Post by mod »

exprL wrote: post #162
slouch wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example at that level a 220lb man can have four (American 1.5oz) shots and hit the road immediately at ~0.7. If you were to test his blood. Breathalyzers work differently and this guy would not pass one.

Can you get hit with a DUI without a blood test result in the U.S.? Breathalysers pretty much only give largely inaccurate results when you still have alcohol residue in your throat or mouth. If you rinse out or wait a moment, they'll probably fall in line with blood tests.

I believe you get taken to the station and then given a blood test.

Where I live, refusing either results in a guilty verdict.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#169

Post by CalRobert »

madaxe_again wrote: post #26
Someone1234 wrote: post #23

I've never been a user, but I do support legalisation. The reason I support it even though I myself wouldn't benefit is: - It is at least as safe as tobacco and alcohol. So even if we leave the question of what is safer on the table, I think most people would agree based on available evidence that it isn't LESS safe than those two, and they're legal. - The "war on drugs" has been a disaster. It has actually hurt econ…

Agreed on the whole driving bit - but commensurately, whenever I'm in the US, I am astonished by how casually people drink and drive. Don't think it's a stoner problem, more an inconsiderate dickhead/cultural problem.

One of the interesting thing about moving from the US to Ireland was that it went from being acceptable to have a couple of beers and then drive, to people maybe having one mid-strength Guinness, if that (some reasonable exception for parties where you were hanging out for several hours). I find I prefer it here. Also, it's worth noting the limit for your first two years of having a licence is 0.02%, and they require 12 hours of behind the wheel training (when I got my Californian licence there was no requirement, as I was 18).

Ireland has some of the more dangerous roads in Europe, and yet it's still about half as dangerous as the US, depending on your preferred metric.

Re: Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say

#170

Post by mod »

camhenlin wrote: post #163
mod wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also would presumably discriminate against entire swaths of people (think old folks, potentially disabled drivers, etc). Not that I think anyone incapable of driving should be, but any impairment test would flunk certain groups of 100% sober people working at their best ability (not sleep-drunk, either).

If they're unable to pass the impairment test they shouldn't be driving. If grandpa is too old to drive and can't maintain his lane in traffic anymore, a police officer giving him an impairment test and failing him is not discrimination.

I didn't mean to use discriminate in the PC sense of the word. Simply meant that those groups of people will fail.

I agree with your conclusion.

I think taking away the driving privilege of tons of old people is going to cause a stir, that's all. And more importantly, we don't have "old age checkpoints," and you don't go to jail if you're old and fail some kind of ability test while sober.

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